1
00:00:04,630 --> 00:00:03,030
better radio network

2
00:00:06,309 --> 00:00:04,640
don't run and hide

3
00:00:08,710 --> 00:00:06,319
don't be afraid

4
00:00:11,350 --> 00:00:08,720
don't turn away any longer

5
00:00:14,070 --> 00:00:11,360
the truth will set you free

6
00:00:17,349 --> 00:00:14,080
and now your host the captain of

7
00:00:19,590 --> 00:00:17,359
conspiracy the prince of paranormal

8
00:00:20,470 --> 00:00:19,600
this ain't your daddy's radio network

9
00:00:30,630 --> 00:00:20,480
show

10
00:00:38,229 --> 00:00:33,910
all right everybody welcome back

11
00:00:44,389 --> 00:00:41,110
january 16 2014 this is fade to black i

12
00:00:46,869 --> 00:00:44,399
am your host jimmy church

13
00:00:49,510 --> 00:00:46,879
welcoming everybody around the world we

14
00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:49,520
are 16 days into the new year

15
00:00:54,229 --> 00:00:51,360
we are live from the jp motorsports

16
00:00:57,029 --> 00:00:54,239
studios right here in burbank california

17
00:00:59,990 --> 00:00:57,039
for kjcr and the dark matter radio

18
00:01:01,910 --> 00:01:00,000
network i am your host jimmy church

19
00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:01,920
and you know what i do i start off every

20
00:01:05,990 --> 00:01:03,520
show the same way

21
00:01:08,710 --> 00:01:06,000
and that is a big salute to the proud

22
00:01:11,030 --> 00:01:08,720
men and women in uniform all around the

23
00:01:12,710 --> 00:01:11,040
world fighting the good fight for us

24
00:01:15,190 --> 00:01:12,720
without them there is no me there is no

25
00:01:16,870 --> 00:01:15,200
you there is no us and you can't hear me

26
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:16,880
right now

27
00:01:22,630 --> 00:01:18,640
happy birthday

28
00:01:24,390 --> 00:01:22,640
to my all-time idol today aj foyt

29
00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:24,400
is 79

30
00:01:32,870 --> 00:01:30,950
he is my idol he's a race car driver

31
00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:32,880
from uh texas

32
00:01:39,109 --> 00:01:35,439
indianapolis 500

33
00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:39,119
multi-champ aj point 79 years old today

34
00:01:42,789 --> 00:01:41,360
follow us on twitter facebook youtube

35
00:01:45,510 --> 00:01:42,799
everything is fade to black everything

36
00:01:46,389 --> 00:01:45,520
is at j church radio everything is jimmy

37
00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:46,399
church

38
00:01:50,469 --> 00:01:48,960
you know what to do go follow go like go

39
00:01:52,870 --> 00:01:50,479
and subscribe

40
00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:52,880
tonight we will have open lines going

41
00:01:56,870 --> 00:01:54,720
into the third segments

42
00:01:58,789 --> 00:01:56,880
i will be taking your calls during the

43
00:02:03,910 --> 00:01:58,799
third hour of the show you know the

44
00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:05,030
it's right there on the website

45
00:02:08,710 --> 00:02:07,119
jimmychurchradio.com

46
00:02:12,309 --> 00:02:08,720
all right you can always email

47
00:02:14,470 --> 00:02:12,319
throughout the show you know i read as

48
00:02:16,150 --> 00:02:14,480
many as i can the producers here get the

49
00:02:18,309 --> 00:02:16,160
good ones into me

50
00:02:19,910 --> 00:02:18,319
i will read them on the air i'll try to

51
00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:19,920
respond tomorrow

52
00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:22,080
if you're feeling lucky all right you

53
00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:24,480
can write to me all over the website you

54
00:02:27,589 --> 00:02:25,920
can do it in confidence go to the

55
00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:27,599
contact page you can do what you need to

56
00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:28,319
do

57
00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:30,480
and the bumper music as always i will

58
00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:32,080
always thank doug alders from white

59
00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:33,040
snake

60
00:02:35,670 --> 00:02:33,760
for

61
00:02:37,509 --> 00:02:35,680
providing our bumper music and tonight

62
00:02:38,309 --> 00:02:37,519
is no exception okay

63
00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:38,319
now

64
00:02:42,229 --> 00:02:40,640
over on the forums page i talked about

65
00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:42,239
that last night

66
00:02:45,670 --> 00:02:44,080
and we got some really cool submissions

67
00:02:47,990 --> 00:02:45,680
and i want everybody to go over there

68
00:02:51,910 --> 00:02:48,000
tonight go over to jimmychurchradio.com

69
00:02:53,509 --> 00:02:51,920
go to the social forums one of uh the

70
00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:53,519
postings there

71
00:03:00,390 --> 00:02:56,080
is from a paranormal research group out

72
00:03:03,990 --> 00:03:00,400
of texas and they posted three different

73
00:03:06,070 --> 00:03:04,000
uh class a evps that they think is a

74
00:03:07,190 --> 00:03:06,080
possible gateway

75
00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:07,200
portal

76
00:03:11,509 --> 00:03:09,440
to time travel

77
00:03:13,990 --> 00:03:11,519
go and check that out and go listen to

78
00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:14,000
them i'm gonna i did it all night last

79
00:03:18,229 --> 00:03:16,000
night after the show

80
00:03:21,509 --> 00:03:18,239
and uh just go and check it out it's

81
00:03:24,070 --> 00:03:21,519
very very interesting stuff and tell me

82
00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:24,080
what you think all right and okay so

83
00:03:28,630 --> 00:03:26,640
moving on we've got a great show uh

84
00:03:30,789 --> 00:03:28,640
planned uh for tonight and it's

85
00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:30,799
something i've been excited about and

86
00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:33,280
looking forward to for quite a long time

87
00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:35,680
um and before we get to that i want

88
00:03:40,789 --> 00:03:37,760
everybody to check out

89
00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:40,799
the uh near miss uh at heathrow airport

90
00:03:45,030 --> 00:03:43,120
there's a couple of updates on that over

91
00:03:48,229 --> 00:03:45,040
at artbell.com

92
00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:48,239
and i mentioned yesterday by the way

93
00:03:52,149 --> 00:03:50,640
this uh article

94
00:03:54,789 --> 00:03:52,159
that was put out by

95
00:04:00,309 --> 00:03:54,799
uh the official uh semi-official fars

96
00:04:02,390 --> 00:04:00,319
new news agency over in iran about

97
00:04:05,270 --> 00:04:02,400
about space aliens running the united

98
00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:05,280
states okay i i'm gonna talk a little

99
00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:07,599
bit about this later but there's a

100
00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:10,720
couple of updates on that as well at

101
00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:13,120
jimmy church radio so go over and check

102
00:04:19,509 --> 00:04:16,000
that out and it involves edward snowden

103
00:04:20,789 --> 00:04:19,519
by the way of all things and uh so just

104
00:04:23,350 --> 00:04:20,799
just go and check that out i'm going to

105
00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:23,360
talk more about this in the third hour i

106
00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:25,840
want to run on about it right now i've

107
00:04:30,870 --> 00:04:28,560
just got to hold back and save myself

108
00:04:32,629 --> 00:04:30,880
okay so now listen i want to go ahead

109
00:04:34,870 --> 00:04:32,639
and get straight into the show

110
00:04:36,950 --> 00:04:34,880
so we're going to take a quick break but

111
00:04:40,310 --> 00:04:36,960
when we come back

112
00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:40,320
um i'm going to go commercial free we're

113
00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:42,000
going to go to the top of the hour we

114
00:04:46,629 --> 00:04:44,080
are gonna go commercial free

115
00:04:49,189 --> 00:04:46,639
and uh we'll take things from there

116
00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:49,199
and i think you are gonna find the next

117
00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:52,240
hour i always promise one thing here on

118
00:04:57,830 --> 00:04:55,440
this show the best the brightest

119
00:04:59,590 --> 00:04:57,840
the most international cosmopolitan

120
00:05:01,670 --> 00:04:59,600
thinkers there are

121
00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:01,680
tonight is no exception

122
00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:04,240
when we come back after the break

123
00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:07,120
we're gonna have jerome clark right here

124
00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:09,919
with us and with you it's time to learn

125
00:05:15,469 --> 00:05:12,160
something and i'm really excited about

126
00:05:16,990 --> 00:05:15,479
this this is kjcr fade to black

127
00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:17,000
artbell.com

128
00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:19,120
jimmychurchradio.com on the dark matter

129
00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:20,720
radio network we'll be back right after

130
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:38,150
so

131
00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:40,469
you're listening to jimmy church fade to

132
00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:47,430
what's up revolutionaries it's me jimmy

133
00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:48,320
church

134
00:05:55,110 --> 00:05:51,680
do you have an irs or state tax issue

135
00:05:59,110 --> 00:05:55,120
well i did and i called national tax

136
00:06:01,830 --> 00:05:59,120
experts my problems were fixed done for

137
00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:01,840
me and man i gotta tell you it was a

138
00:06:05,909 --> 00:06:03,120
relief

139
00:06:08,230 --> 00:06:05,919
national tax experts are recognized tax

140
00:06:10,309 --> 00:06:08,240
office that services clients in all 50

141
00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:10,319
states it doesn't matter where you live

142
00:06:14,550 --> 00:06:12,400
give them a call i'm telling you they

143
00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:14,560
take the time to understand each and

144
00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:16,400
every client's individual financial

145
00:06:20,790 --> 00:06:19,120
status as well as their financial goals

146
00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:20,800
and that's exactly what you need my

147
00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:22,560
brother when you're taking on the evil

148
00:06:30,150 --> 00:06:25,520
three letter so seriously give them a

149
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,870
again 1-877-909-544

150
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:37,270
or go check out their website dub dub

151
00:06:45,749 --> 00:06:41,520
dub nat tax experts dot com that's n a t

152
00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:45,759
t a x e x p e r t s

153
00:07:13,029 --> 00:06:49,240
dot com tell them jimmy sent you this is

154
00:07:19,430 --> 00:07:17,469
all right welcome back kjcr

155
00:07:22,710 --> 00:07:19,440
jimmychurchradio.com this is fade to

156
00:07:28,830 --> 00:07:22,720
black i am your host jimmy church

157
00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:32,150
uh so let's just get straight to it

158
00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:34,720
jerome clark

159
00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:36,960
has served as a writer reporter and

160
00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:40,960
editor for a number of ufo magazines and

161
00:07:46,150 --> 00:07:43,280
other paranormal subjects

162
00:07:48,390 --> 00:07:46,160
he has been an editor of fate magazine

163
00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:48,400
the international ufo reporter and a

164
00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:51,199
board member of the center for ufo

165
00:07:57,430 --> 00:07:54,400
studies in the 1990s clark authored the

166
00:07:58,629 --> 00:07:57,440
ufo book an abridged version of the ufo

167
00:08:01,029 --> 00:07:58,639
encyclopedia

168
00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:01,039
which won the 1998 benjamin franklin

169
00:08:05,589 --> 00:08:02,800
award in the science environment

170
00:08:07,909 --> 00:08:05,599
category sponsored by the independent

171
00:08:09,950 --> 00:08:07,919
book publishers association

172
00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:09,960
in its review of his 1999 book

173
00:08:16,070 --> 00:08:13,039
cryptozoology a to z salon.com commented

174
00:08:18,869 --> 00:08:16,080
that clark and co-author lorne coleman

175
00:08:21,350 --> 00:08:18,879
show a touchingly supportive nature for

176
00:08:24,070 --> 00:08:21,360
a subject often criticized for a lack of

177
00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:24,080
scientific rigor he has appeared on abc

178
00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:26,560
news special report unsolved mysteries

179
00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:29,280
sightings and the a e network his most

180
00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:31,840
recent book is unexplained

181
00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:34,640
published in 2012 and is in its third

182
00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:36,640
edition i would like to welcome to the

183
00:08:39,190 --> 00:08:37,839
program

184
00:08:40,389 --> 00:08:39,200
i am honored

185
00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:40,399
jerome clark

186
00:08:45,269 --> 00:08:42,800
mr clark are you there i certainly am

187
00:08:48,630 --> 00:08:45,279
and thank you for that that nice buildup

188
00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:48,640
i hope i don't disappoint

189
00:08:52,949 --> 00:08:50,160
i wish my

190
00:08:55,750 --> 00:08:52,959
uh intro one day sounds

191
00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:55,760
half that good but welcome to the show i

192
00:08:59,910 --> 00:08:59,120
know that you don't do this often and

193
00:09:04,310 --> 00:08:59,920
uh

194
00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:04,320
taking the time and with coming on with

195
00:09:08,230 --> 00:09:05,680
this and we have

196
00:09:10,310 --> 00:09:08,240
you have we have a lot of uh listeners

197
00:09:12,710 --> 00:09:10,320
out there you have a lot of fans and

198
00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:12,720
and the entire art bell crowd right now

199
00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:15,600
is just sitting and and and listening so

200
00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:18,480
i really really do appreciate it okay

201
00:09:23,509 --> 00:09:21,040
now if i could just interject sure

202
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:23,519
the ufo encyclopedia was actually a

203
00:09:29,829 --> 00:09:26,160
multi-volume series

204
00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:29,839
that was published between 1990 and 1998

205
00:09:35,430 --> 00:09:32,000
and there were five volumes in two

206
00:09:37,190 --> 00:09:35,440
different editions and i i have three

207
00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:37,200
myself i think i told you that earlier

208
00:09:39,430 --> 00:09:38,080
this week

209
00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:39,440
yes

210
00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:40,320
uh

211
00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:42,640
second edition which was actually in two

212
00:09:47,750 --> 00:09:45,200
volumes but actually had more more

213
00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:47,760
material in it than the three volume

214
00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:51,600
uh mine are so dog-eared and

215
00:09:56,550 --> 00:09:52,640
you know

216
00:09:59,590 --> 00:09:56,560
uh well-read all of them and uh

217
00:10:01,430 --> 00:09:59,600
but uh okay so listen really quick um i

218
00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:01,440
start off every

219
00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:02,560
uh

220
00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:05,680
we call them conversations here um and

221
00:10:10,389 --> 00:10:07,760
everybody out there is accustomed to

222
00:10:12,790 --> 00:10:10,399
what i do here but i'll just tell you

223
00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:12,800
now it's just a conversation we're just

224
00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:14,560
sitting in my living room

225
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:17,360
and we're just talking and if i find it

226
00:10:21,269 --> 00:10:19,600
interesting and you find it interesting

227
00:10:23,030 --> 00:10:21,279
everybody out there is gonna find it

228
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:23,040
interesting and and let's just have a

229
00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:25,040
good time with it and i'm really excited

230
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,920
so

231
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:26,959
okay

232
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:28,320
um

233
00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:30,240
uh i'm gonna

234
00:10:34,069 --> 00:10:32,480
uh everybody knows that i i i run

235
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:34,079
without notes

236
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:36,240
but uh i'm gonna ask a couple of quick

237
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:38,640
generic things uh for everybody out

238
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:40,320
there so we can kind of uh paint a

239
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:41,680
picture form

240
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:44,320
uh how did you get into because you're

241
00:10:49,350 --> 00:10:46,399
one of the most read and

242
00:10:50,790 --> 00:10:49,360
published uh authors in this genre uh

243
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:50,800
ufology

244
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:52,640
how did you

245
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:55,040
first get into this and what was your

246
00:11:01,670 --> 00:10:57,760
first book what inspired you

247
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:01,680
well it was just the circumstance that i

248
00:11:06,069 --> 00:11:04,320
joined a book club and one of the

249
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:06,079
introductory selections you know one of

250
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:07,680
those deals where you get four books for

251
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:09,680
a buck or something

252
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:12,240
my fourth choice was was a book called

253
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:15,120
report an unidentified flying objects

254
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:17,600
by edward rupelt who had headed project

255
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,000
blue book in the early 1950s

256
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:22,399
and before then you know i had some

257
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:25,040
faint knowledge of flying saucers

258
00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:26,800
and you know i'd heard about them but

259
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,320
really had never looked into it or

260
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:29,839
thought much about it

261
00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:31,600
but when i saw the book advertise i

262
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:33,040
thought well okay this might be

263
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:34,160
interesting

264
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:35,200
and

265
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:39,920
this is about 1957.

266
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,839
okay not just a kid and um that really

267
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:46,000
sparked an interest it lasted me for

268
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:49,040
decades afterwards now as i often remark

269
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:51,760
that if i had read some other book on

270
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:54,639
ufos for example a book where someone

271
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,480
had said that he had met with the

272
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:58,399
nutrients and there were books like that

273
00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:00,000
around it

274
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,320
i would have thought even as a kid this

275
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,880
is really silly i'm not going to think

276
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:07,519
about this or pursue this but rupaul's

277
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:10,320
book was one of still a classic of of

278
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:11,600
the literature

279
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:14,320
and it was a balanced and sober insane

280
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:16,079
look at the evidence

281
00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:19,040
and then that's what struck me was

282
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:22,000
this clearly obviously sane and educated

283
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,079
and thoughtful man who was experienced

284
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:26,800
in investigations for the air force

285
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:28,800
thought there might be something to this

286
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:31,360
well he was worth eating and so

287
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:32,959
that kind of set me

288
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,600
off on the lost highway that has led me

289
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:37,440
to hear

290
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,000
well it's interesting how you

291
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,720
talk about rupelt's writing style and i

292
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:44,880
agree with you did that influence your

293
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:47,839
writing style too did you want to

294
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,720
uh

295
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,880
i hate to use the term black and white

296
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:53,279
you know but just factual

297
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,160
did you want to uh try to uh

298
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,399
emulate that type of style

299
00:13:01,430 --> 00:13:00,480
he had a wonderful voice

300
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:01,440
he was

301
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,040
you were talking about you know just

302
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:05,440
having a conversation right reading roof

303
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:08,000
out was like you know some guy who had

304
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:10,079
some interesting life experience was

305
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:11,920
talking to you

306
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:14,000
and i guess that he influenced me to the

307
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:16,880
extent that i really prefer

308
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,800
you know just

309
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,800
simple declarative sentences in my

310
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,800
writing to make clear

311
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,320
what i'm thinking what i'm trying to

312
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,399
communicate in one sentence follows

313
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:28,480
logically from the next

314
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:30,880
and rather than get involved in some

315
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:33,600
kind of you know convoluted sort of

316
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,040
style

317
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:36,959
but it was just that straightforward

318
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:38,000
thinking

319
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:40,240
that uh that really impressed me

320
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:43,279
although in retrospect i think that

321
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:45,440
roof out was a man without much of an

322
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:46,800
imagination

323
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,320
he had sort of an engineer's mentality

324
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:52,560
and i think that kept him from

325
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:55,680
really confronting some of the really

326
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,360
difficult and highly strange aspects

327
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:02,160
of ufo cases but he still did a pretty

328
00:14:05,829 --> 00:14:04,560
good job of investigating cases he

329
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,839
wasn't good

330
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,720
at

331
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:08,800
close encounters he couldn't deal with

332
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:11,120
close encounters so when he would come

333
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:13,120
upon somebody's account of a close

334
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:14,320
encounter

335
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:17,199
he would conclude just on the spot that

336
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:20,000
it was some kind of psychological case

337
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:21,920
but he could deal with

338
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:24,399
pilot sightings and radar visual cases

339
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:26,320
and things like that and he did some

340
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,920
pretty good investigations that have

341
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:29,600
stood up over the years

342
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,120
how did you

343
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:33,680
when you first started off uh in your

344
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:36,160
research in

345
00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:39,760
for books and stuff how did you

346
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:41,680
collect that information you and i

347
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:43,440
talked a little bit earlier but we're

348
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,680
going to get to that i that thought in a

349
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:47,360
second but

350
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:49,839
you know without the internet i mean how

351
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,040
did you

352
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:52,800
are you going to your local libraries

353
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:54,320
are you collecting newspapers from

354
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:55,839
around the country are they delivered to

355
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,560
your i mean how do you research

356
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,720
you know back then because you and the

357
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:02,160
reason why i'm asking the question is

358
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:04,720
because you have your books are volumes

359
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:07,279
and volumes of data

360
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:08,880
you know how did you collect that how

361
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:10,399
did you manage that or did you have a

362
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:12,000
team of people do you do it did you do

363
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:14,160
it on your own how did you pull that off

364
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:15,040
well

365
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:18,959
i i worked pretty much on my own um

366
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:21,040
you know there were in the

367
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,480
early 1960s i found out that there were

368
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:27,120
these teenage flying saucer clubs now i

369
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,560
don't think there are any teenage flying

370
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,880
saucer clubs left they've been gone for

371
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:33,120
a long time but they were quite active

372
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,720
in the 50s and

373
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,120
early 60s and so i hooked up

374
00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:39,680
with a national even international

375
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,079
network of of you know bright young

376
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:44,000
people who were interested

377
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:46,639
in ufos and were publishing these little

378
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:48,399
newsletters

379
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:51,920
and then i began to subscribe to the

380
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:54,160
newsletters and magazines published but

381
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,839
for adults who are interested in the

382
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:57,680
subject and of course i became an adult

383
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,800
in time

384
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,320
and so

385
00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:02,320
over time he began to collect an

386
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:05,240
enormous amount of material from

387
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:08,480
correspondence from subscriptions to

388
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,519
newsletters that are long gone and very

389
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:13,519
very hard to find if you set out fresh

390
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,199
trying to find them

391
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,800
and books and all those things and if

392
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:18,880
you held onto them

393
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:22,000
you had a whole lot of information

394
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,639
that's not available to most people

395
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,360
and you never throw anything away

396
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,360
and um and then

397
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:31,920
as you get older as i got older i began

398
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:34,160
you know interviewing people who

399
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:37,199
reported ufo experiences and i

400
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,800
began to go into newspaper archives

401
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,639
whether it was they were preserved as

402
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,639
physical newspapers or

403
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,880
on you know microfilm

404
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:48,880
and that's where i began the historical

405
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,519
research into the airship phenomena

406
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:53,360
phenomenon of

407
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,680
you know the late 19th century and early

408
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:57,360
20th century

409
00:17:01,990 --> 00:16:59,839
and just began to collect all kinds of

410
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,000
stuff and you know over the decades of a

411
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,480
lifetime if you're working at this i

412
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,319
mean if you saw what my office looks

413
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:08,640
like you'd probably faint well that was

414
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:11,760
because i've never thrown anything away

415
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:14,240
that was my i can only imagine what your

416
00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:15,600
garage

417
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:17,839
your wife is a really tolerant person i

418
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,480
can only imagine oh yes

419
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:22,079
well um

420
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:23,120
okay

421
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:24,559
the

422
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:30,000
think now as time has gone by uh it's

423
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,840
it's more and more evident we've gone

424
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:33,919
through probably

425
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:38,320
three or four distinct phases of

426
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:41,520
of eyewitness testimony and and the type

427
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:43,919
of things that they're seeing

428
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:44,840
and

429
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,400
uh um not only that but but the

430
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,400
photographs of you know everything is

431
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:52,080
kind of generational now and you can

432
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:54,960
kind of you know look at what uh

433
00:18:01,270 --> 00:17:58,320
uh the 50s was bringing and then the 60s

434
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:01,280
and the 70s and certainly uh

435
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:04,559
now today why do you think

436
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,400
is the influence uh a social thing for

437
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:11,120
what possibly most people are seeing and

438
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:13,039
i'm referring to you know the flying

439
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:15,840
saucer type thing from the 50s and

440
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:18,400
and and then the cigar shapes of the

441
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:21,200
triangles and you know today

442
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,559
why do you think

443
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,190
well

444
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:29,840
boy that's the question yes i think that

445
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,520
i knew the answer to that i could tell

446
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,360
you everything you need to know about

447
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,440
you

448
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,440
but seriously there are so many

449
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:39,520
variables in these things it's hard to

450
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:41,679
say now one thing i noticed as i was

451
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:42,480
doing

452
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,280
research for my

453
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:47,440
encyclopedia series

454
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,720
i was

455
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:50,320
you know studying this stuff and so i

456
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:52,559
was following the chronology you know

457
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:55,840
from the june 24th 1947 and the kent

458
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:57,360
arnold sighting it really started

459
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:00,480
everything right and then going up until

460
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:04,960
about 1990 is when the series ends

461
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,000
and i

462
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:08,480
it sort of confirmed my two intuitive

463
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,440
sense as someone who had begun paying

464
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:13,760
attention in the late 1950s in other

465
00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:15,760
words about a decade into the ufo

466
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:17,120
controversy

467
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:18,559
that

468
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:21,840
it started out fairly straightforwardly

469
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:24,559
with with really interesting

470
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:25,520
i think

471
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:28,080
strongly evidential sightings of

472
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:30,080
daylight discs

473
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:31,440
and

474
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:39,919
some foreign

475
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:43,200
technology in our atmosphere right

476
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:44,640
and

477
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:47,360
by the 1960s though

478
00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:48,799
there

479
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:50,840
was an enormous

480
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:54,240
amount of really strange stuff going on

481
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,320
or at least being reported and that's

482
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:58,799
why the second volume of the

483
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,799
first edition of the ufo encyclopedia is

484
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:02,799
titled high strangeness it covers the

485
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,640
60s and 70s

486
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:06,559
and that was when

487
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:09,280
people began to pay attention to ufo

488
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:12,000
abduction reports the hill sighting

489
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,799
comes along in mid 1960s

490
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:17,760
the revelation of the abduction aspect

491
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:18,720
of that

492
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,440
and then you get start getting men and

493
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,320
black stories and mothman and all kind

494
00:20:29,870 --> 00:20:27,120
of just incredible awareness that

495
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,880
appears to be inconsistent with the

496
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,080
extraterrestrial hypothesis that it

497
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:35,039
dominated most thinking about ufos up

498
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:37,600
till then right and and

499
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:40,720
and and i agree with that do you think

500
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:42,159
and this is i've thought about this a

501
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:43,039
lot

502
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:45,200
do you think that even though you have

503
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:48,880
the absent uh absence of uh of men in

504
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:52,080
black in in that type of uh

505
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:52,880
uh

506
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:56,240
what's the word you know that that

507
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:59,600
aspect of of stories and and and and

508
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:00,960
testimony

509
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:03,520
it was absent from the 40s and 50s do

510
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,799
you think it was just not noticed and

511
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,720
possibly could have been going

512
00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,799
on maybe even back to

513
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:12,880
you know the airship stuff

514
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,919
well

515
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,320
if you dig deeply enough and i believe

516
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:18,720
me i dug deeply when i was working on

517
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:21,120
those encyclopedias i went through

518
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:24,159
archives and dug into stuff that nobody

519
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:27,039
had even looked at you know in years and

520
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:29,440
years and years including letters that

521
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:30,720
people had written

522
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,840
to long defunct ufo organizations

523
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:36,240
telling about their experiences

524
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:38,559
and cases that some ufologists had

525
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:41,039
investigated and written up a report

526
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:43,120
that got lost in a file somewhere and i

527
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,679
was restoring all of this stuff

528
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:47,600
finding it and trying to get it back

529
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,760
into the record and so there's all kinds

530
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:51,840
of stuff in those encyclopedia volumes

531
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:54,480
hadn't been in any books before just

532
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,640
because i was digging deeply right and

533
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:00,640
you can find precedent for almost

534
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:02,960
anything

535
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:04,799
somebody somewhere

536
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:07,520
told a story that sounded like

537
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:10,840
you know some story out of the 1960s

538
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:14,240
1970s with you know all these incredibly

539
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:15,919
high strangeness

540
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,080
stories that were afloat

541
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,640
so nothing is really new

542
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,840
is it

543
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:22,960
some of it

544
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,159
comes seems to come forward

545
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:28,880
to the floor for a while or either that

546
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:32,000
or people just begin consciously to look

547
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:34,080
for it and if you look for it you'll

548
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:35,200
find it

549
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:37,440
so it's really hard to say

550
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:38,640
whether

551
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:40,159
you know these things were always

552
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:41,440
whether

553
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:43,120
these things are new

554
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,600
or we're just starting or we focus on

555
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:48,000
them and think of them as significant i

556
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:51,039
think that in the 1950s if you came upon

557
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,840
a really really strange ufo story

558
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:57,679
most people

559
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,679
just couldn't deal with it

560
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:01,440
because they were looking for something

561
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:02,480
like

562
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:03,600
you know

563
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:06,159
daylight disc sighting or maybe even you

564
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,720
know the object had touched breathy on

565
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:11,200
the ground for it shot off or something

566
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:14,080
and the really strange stories were just

567
00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:17,280
simply outside anybody's ability really

568
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:20,000
to comprehend or to think about

569
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,159
so mostly i found that when you got a

570
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:24,960
really strange story it was often

571
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,280
somebody's first person account

572
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,120
somebody had written a letter to a ufo

573
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:31,360
group and said this happened to me and

574
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,039
the ufo groups

575
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:35,039
tended to be conservative

576
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:37,520
and most of them were inclined just to

577
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:39,840
you know not even to respond to the

578
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:41,760
letter not wanting to encourage the guy

579
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,600
who they assumed as a nut

580
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:45,120
or hope sir

581
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:46,640
what did you think

582
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:48,559
this is just kind of a direct question

583
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:49,440
but

584
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:53,679
with um adamski and with billy meyer

585
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:56,559
those two stories although they're

586
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,880
you know they're not connected but they

587
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:00,640
they appeared

588
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,960
at a time when uh

589
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:04,400
i mean the stories were getting more

590
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:06,799
fantastical as you were just referring

591
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,840
to

592
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,760
what do you think about those two cases

593
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:11,600
specifically and then let's move on but

594
00:24:17,909 --> 00:24:15,200
i'm just very curious uh on how you

595
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,919
how you uh looked at those two cases

596
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,080
well i think adamski's story is more

597
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:22,559
historically significant in the sense

598
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,320
that this was the beginning of a kind of

599
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:26,240
flying saucer religion

600
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:27,279
which was

601
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:30,240
just almost in well was an inevitable

602
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,440
development

603
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,200
people were going to make a religion

604
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,760
around these unknown objects that were

605
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:37,120
inscrutable

606
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,840
that whose implications for us could be

607
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:42,000
literally cosmic

608
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:45,679
now in in the early years of the 1950s

609
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:48,159
the more conservative uf organizations

610
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:50,799
were appalled at the emergence of the

611
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,080
contacting movement which really begins

612
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,240
in in the modern sense in the in

613
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,440
southern california 19 early 1950s and

614
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:02,159
they thought of these stories as clearly

615
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:03,360
farcical

616
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:06,720
right and crazy and the newspapers loved

617
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,200
to publicize these stories because they

618
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,600
were farcical and crazy

619
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,440
while the uf organizations were trying

620
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,360
to make ufo study

621
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:17,760
and ufo sightings respectable that you

622
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:19,520
could talk about them in respectable

623
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:22,480
society and governments and scientists

624
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:24,400
would take the report seriously and

625
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:26,400
investigate them but

626
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,440
adamski and his other contact he

627
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:31,919
associates were really subverting that

628
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:35,520
quest for respectability for ufology

629
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,320
and so they hated adamski

630
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,640
and they were always down on him and i

631
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,559
can certainly understand why from their

632
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:44,880
perspective but i can also see from a

633
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,840
broader historical perspective that yes

634
00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:49,440
these guys were going to come along no

635
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:51,520
matter what yeah it was kind of

636
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:53,840
inevitable what about uh uh billy meyer

637
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,159
what'd you think about that

638
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,080
well

639
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:01,840
i am deeply skeptical of anybody any

640
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:03,279
contactee

641
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:05,760
who comes forward with photographs and

642
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,320
alleged physical evidence i think that

643
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:10,559
contactees who tell incredibly strange

644
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,600
stories can be sincere that they can

645
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:15,840
really believe that it happened to them

646
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:18,320
but since it didn't happen to them in a

647
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:19,679
physical sense

648
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,240
if they produce photographs and other

649
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:24,400
physical evidence they have to be

650
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:27,360
consciously fabricating this

651
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:29,760
one of the things that hit me and i

652
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:31,360
don't want to dwell on billy meyer i

653
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:34,240
just don't but when i would watch those

654
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,520
films

655
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:37,679
i just thought to myself how can

656
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:38,799
somebody

657
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:41,440
buy into this but yet they did by the

658
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,279
thousands and i just thought how can

659
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,520
they not see what i am seeing did you

660
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:48,000
have the same impression oh yes oh yes

661
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,679
absolutely

662
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:51,279
like i said i don't want to have to say

663
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,440
more because people get some people take

664
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,760
this seriously yes which is their right

665
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:58,000
but they also get mad at you if you

666
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:59,520
don't agree with them

667
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:01,279
you know and i'm not trying to stir the

668
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,400
pot here i'm just trying to

669
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:07,279
uh convey what my eyes are seeing and

670
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:09,039
what i'm seeing and you just want to

671
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:10,320
turn around and look at other people

672
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,840
going come on really

673
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,919
you know now not to say that some of

674
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:15,600
those photographs weren't really well

675
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:17,039
done

676
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:18,880
well it's it's sort of like

677
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:20,799
with the w

678
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:22,159
c fields

679
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:24,159
he said who do you believe no it's

680
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,559
groucho marx who do you believe me or

681
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:28,880
your own eyes yeah right exactly you're

682
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:31,360
lying guys

683
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,799
oh now and so getting kind of staying on

684
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,240
the same subject but i want to get to

685
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,640
the the airship we're going to do a

686
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,080
little chronological thing we're going

687
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:42,559
to move forward uh just kind of all kind

688
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:44,559
of like your paper today that was

689
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:46,399
absolutely fascinating and

690
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:49,760
and i read it um if there you know what

691
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:52,000
i'll get a link up is it okay if i post

692
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:53,600
it uh on the website tonight for

693
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,000
everybody to read sure okay

694
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,720
um then we will uh we will take care of

695
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,440
that and uh the uh the web and uh the

696
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:03,360
producers in the other room here at the

697
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,960
studio are probably

698
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:06,559
panicking wondering what we're talking

699
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:08,640
about but so it'll have to be dealt with

700
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,000
after the show but

701
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,799
anyway back to the airships

702
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:14,240
the thing

703
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:17,440
for me that i i find most fascinating uh

704
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:21,039
with the airship wave in the late 1800s

705
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:22,399
is that

706
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:24,880
um and i know this sounds

707
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,520
simple now to think about but back then

708
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,679
communication was non-existent there was

709
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:31,200
you know there wasn't even phones you

710
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:32,559
know you had

711
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,240
uh uh maybe morse code you know possibly

712
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:39,600
but uh whatever phones yeah well oh okay

713
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:42,320
1870 we had phones eighteen oh no that's

714
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:45,440
a little early no yeah exactly

715
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:48,399
yeah turn of the century but so in but

716
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,200
the the but the communication

717
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:53,760
was direct communication instantaneous

718
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:56,799
stuff was not non-existent but yet

719
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:00,240
you had these reports coming uh

720
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,320
uh from around the country some of them

721
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:04,080
a few days apart

722
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:05,679
where you know there was it was

723
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,600
impossible for people to communicate

724
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:09,840
with each other but yet they were

725
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:14,240
apparently seeing the same thing and how

726
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:16,480
how can we safely explain that away

727
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:22,149
well

728
00:29:26,149 --> 00:29:24,000
i don't think there's any question

729
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:26,159
people were seeing anomalous things

730
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:28,640
things that even now are difficult if

731
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:30,480
not impossible to explain in

732
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:32,640
conventional terms the airship

733
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,600
phenomenon is the more we dig into it

734
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:37,919
the it's usually thought to have started

735
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:42,240
in 1896 in northern california

736
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,600
but we know now that it goes back

737
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:47,840
years before that

738
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:50,240
and people were seeing these anomalous

739
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:52,000
airships now an airship is like a

740
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,520
zeppelin it's a lighter lighter-than-air

741
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,440
but controlled

742
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,200
aerial machine

743
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:59,279
and that was also the vocabulary of the

744
00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:00,320
time

745
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,760
and they looked like

746
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:03,440
you know they looked like airships but

747
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,640
there were no airships in america

748
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,880
during the 19th century

749
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:10,720
and in fact there was there was there

750
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:13,440
were airships or dirigibles

751
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:15,440
didn't really come to the united states

752
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:16,960
until

753
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:19,440
the uh early 20th century although they

754
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:22,399
had been flown in in europe particularly

755
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:25,200
germany during the 19th century but

756
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,440
but they were not an american phenomenon

757
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,600
and what people were describing

758
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,360
are things that are not in any

759
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,679
aeronautics history

760
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:35,520
they're just

761
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,960
i don't think most aeronautical

762
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,120
historians are even aware of the airship

763
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:41,600
waves of the late 19th century in the

764
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,919
early 20th century because they're just

765
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,360
so outrageous they couldn't have

766
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,000
happened right according to conventional

767
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,399
thinking conventional history but people

768
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:52,399
were seeing and reporting these

769
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,039
extraordinary airships and sometimes

770
00:31:01,029 --> 00:30:57,039
according to stories sometimes they

771
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:01,039
landed and people came out of them and i

772
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:03,200
they were people they were like people

773
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:05,440
who would say well my name is so-and-so

774
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,000
and i'm an american inventor and i

775
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:10,880
invented this machine in a shop in iowa

776
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,200
and i'm flying it around the country

777
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:15,039
so you get these stories like this and

778
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:17,279
many of them are hoaxes

779
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,640
but not all of them appear to be hoaxes

780
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:22,720
where does the idea

781
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,840
uh

782
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:25,360
it has to

783
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:27,200
germinate from something

784
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:30,320
you know where does the idea come

785
00:31:34,149 --> 00:31:31,440
is it

786
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,159
some kind of urban myth that was

787
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,000
spreading around the country at that

788
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,840
time and it was you know the old

789
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:39,360
telephone game

790
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,480
you know

791
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:43,120
and it got more and more exaggerated but

792
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:44,799
also the other thing

793
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:47,200
uh that i have read over the years in my

794
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:48,640
research into this

795
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:51,279
the thing that confused me was

796
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,600
people commenting about wings and

797
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:55,039
propellers

798
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:57,279
before i don't think anybody had ever

799
00:32:02,230 --> 00:31:59,679
seen a you know a wing the wright

800
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:02,240
brothers were still years off

801
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:05,120
and so how does you know where does this

802
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,720
germinate from it's got to start

803
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:09,600
somewhere well it starts in the

804
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:12,640
in the miliew of popular fascination

805
00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:15,360
with flight everybody knew that somebody

806
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:17,320
was going to invent and have a

807
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:21,440
heavier-than-air flying machine soon

808
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:24,559
and there were almost every small town

809
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:26,320
had a tinker

810
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:30,720
who was working in a shop and trying to

811
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:32,960
invent a flying machine

812
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:35,120
and there was popular fiction

813
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:36,880
about

814
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:39,519
aeronauts flying their their inventions

815
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,440
and there were even stories that these

816
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:43,600
things could be used in warfare that you

817
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,279
could actually throw grenades from a

818
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:48,000
flying machine and blow up things on the

819
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:49,039
ground

820
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:51,679
and so i mean there was a vision of what

821
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:54,559
the 20th century would bring in in terms

822
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:57,360
of aerial technology so there was

823
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,000
enormous amount of interest in it

824
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:02,320
and when the sightings when people began

825
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:04,399
claiming that they'd actually seen

826
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,760
airships

827
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:07,760
everybody assumed that somebody had

828
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,360
secretly invented an airship

829
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:13,440
and that so

830
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:15,279
you even

831
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:18,320
in in the spring of 1897 when there were

832
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:21,279
multiple reports all over the country

833
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:23,840
either the people were laughed at and

834
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:26,000
there were jokes the usual jokes about

835
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:28,960
drinking and stuff or that or if they

836
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,600
people took this story seriously they

837
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:34,080
said oh finally someone has invented an

838
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:35,440
airship

839
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:38,000
and this will be announced to the public

840
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,159
soon when he's just flying around the

841
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,720
country in his associates on an

842
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:44,640
experimental flight but we'll know about

843
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:45,919
it soon

844
00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:48,480
well nothing like that happened but the

845
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:50,840
but reports of anomalous airships

846
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,519
continued uh you know well into the

847
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:56,000
nineteen teens

848
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:57,440
and these were

849
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,960
described as

850
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:01,120
you know big flying machines with big

851
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,559
wings and then

852
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:04,159
attached to balloons and things like

853
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:05,840
that i mean they didn't they weren't

854
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:08,399
they didn't sound like modern ufos but

855
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:09,839
they were

856
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:12,960
the periods equivalent of ufos

857
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,960
when um

858
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:16,800
uh when the reports

859
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:20,000
uh that you know i read some today uh

860
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:21,599
with uh your paper but when those

861
00:34:25,109 --> 00:34:23,359
reports came out

862
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,119
and there was a lot of similar things

863
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:26,639
you know they talked to the people on

864
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,079
the craft and

865
00:34:31,349 --> 00:34:29,679
you know they talked to you know the

866
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:31,359
captain or whatever and they so there's

867
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:33,280
all of these similar things but

868
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:34,639
was uh

869
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:37,679
and i and i remember the illinois iowa

870
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,879
connection

871
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:40,240
okay but

872
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:41,599
was it ever

873
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:42,639
uh

874
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,159
revealed that that one of these airships

875
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:49,280
was built in illinois or iowa around

876
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,679
that time was did that ever

877
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:53,760
you know today was that has that ever

878
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:55,200
been found out

879
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:55,919
no

880
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,520
there have been several

881
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:59,040
people who have done

882
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:00,079
actual

883
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:03,040
investigations i remember one of the

884
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:05,839
stories supposedly the aeronaut in an

885
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:07,920
airship told somebody that

886
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:10,560
he he gave his name and he said that he

887
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:12,960
is from goshen new york

888
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:14,000
and

889
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,280
daniel cohen wrote a book about the 1897

890
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:19,599
airship and he lived

891
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:21,680
within driving distance of goshen in

892
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:23,040
upstate new york

893
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:25,200
and he actually went there and did a lot

894
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:26,400
of

895
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,119
you know research and you know and tried

896
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,359
to find if such a man existed and there

897
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:34,000
was no record of him and none of these

898
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:35,440
stories have

899
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:38,240
you know where the supposed inventor

900
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:40,000
said where he came from none of these

901
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:40,960
stories

902
00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:43,520
pan out i mean they're just they're all

903
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:46,160
they are is a series of strange

904
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,680
anecdotes

905
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,920
from the period

906
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:51,359
and

907
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:55,839
good reputation who've seen credible

908
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:59,119
newspaper editors police officers

909
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,800
yeah kind of people you would tend to

910
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:02,560
take seriously

911
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:04,000
but

912
00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:06,960
all that exists of that is preserved in

913
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:09,320
these old newspapers and there were no

914
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:11,119
airshipologists back then they were

915
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:13,280
going around interviewing witnesses

916
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:16,000
trying to drive right right right yes

917
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:18,160
and that of course really hurts us

918
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,520
but i did find while i was digging

919
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,280
doing this archival research for the

920
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:25,839
encyclopedia series i did find letters

921
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,079
from people remembering

922
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,000
things now this some of these letters

923
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:32,640
were like in the early 1950s so some of

924
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,640
these people were still alive

925
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:36,720
from the turn of the century okay and

926
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:38,560
they would write and they would say

927
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:42,079
back around 1900 or 1903

928
00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:45,200
i saw this and they would describe from

929
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,599
their own personal memory of what they

930
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:50,240
had seen and although they the term

931
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:53,200
airship had long gone out of use

932
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,000
i recognize it that if they had reported

933
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:57,920
the sub the sighting at the time had

934
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,400
been reported in the local newspaper it

935
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,640
would have been called an airship

936
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:03,760
so even

937
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:06,320
and ed rupel did interview

938
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:09,920
an old man who as a boy had seen an

939
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:12,560
airship in northern california so there

940
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:15,520
were actually a few people living people

941
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,839
at least in the early part of the ufo

942
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:20,400
age who you know were actually living

943
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:22,720
linked to that era

944
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:26,400
do you think uh in your research now and

945
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:28,880
uh and we can talk about your we can

946
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:32,320
move on to the paper today um anomalies

947
00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:34,000
uh do you think

948
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:35,920
they were actually seeing something now

949
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,040
and it wasn't imagination

950
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,119
well

951
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:42,800
um

952
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:44,560
they were certainly experiencing

953
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:46,000
something

954
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,119
that was

955
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:49,359
extraordinary

956
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,040
and

957
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:53,040
still i think defies

958
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:54,480
explanation

959
00:37:58,950 --> 00:37:56,560
but i don't think you know these these

960
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:58,960
were literally true

961
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:01,680
that there was something going on

962
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:05,040
that people were experiencing and

963
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:07,200
experiencing vividly

964
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:08,720
i don't know

965
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,880
that these were events because there's

966
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:13,200
no evidence that anything like this

967
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:14,400
happened

968
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:19,440
is that you have all this really

969
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:22,320
striking testimony by apparently sincere

970
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,920
people

971
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:25,440
and the

972
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:29,200
uh the editors the writers uh for the

973
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:31,040
for the publications

974
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:33,200
really went out of their way it seems

975
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,839
with each of the witnesses to make sure

976
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:37,680
that they describe that witness as a

977
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:39,920
very upstanding citizen

978
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,640
right which is not necessarily

979
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:45,280
a validation because there was

980
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:48,160
a lot of humor in those days for example

981
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:49,440
i remember

982
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,400
one case from new mexico in the early

983
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:54,240
20th century

984
00:39:03,910 --> 00:38:58,640
where the witnesses was described as

985
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,150
it was sort of a joke i mean sometimes

986
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:08,400
it was meant seriously but other times

987
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:10,480
it was an ironic joke and it was like a

988
00:39:14,069 --> 00:39:11,359
wink

989
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,079
to the reader who may have actually like

990
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:16,960
was a small town paper the reader of the

991
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:19,359
small town paper would probably know

992
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:20,960
that guy and know that he had a

993
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:23,520
reputation as a practical joker right

994
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:25,599
you know they fell you know short of

995
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:26,640
saying

996
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:29,760
yes uh and john smith who has never lied

997
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,640
ever in his life you know

998
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,040
and they've and they really and that is

999
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:37,520
a consistent um uh thing that i've seen

1000
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:38,400
from time

1001
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:39,520
for each

1002
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:43,599
want to make it they want to make it

1003
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,240
perfectly clear that this witness is the

1004
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,400
most honest man in the history of the

1005
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,240
earth you know

1006
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:51,760
that's one of the problems we have with

1007
00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:52,480
the

1008
00:40:03,030 --> 00:39:59,920
wild and wooly journalistic standards

1009
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,040
and i use the word standards loosely

1010
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:05,440
from that period now if similar things

1011
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:08,800
had not been reported internationally

1012
00:40:12,309 --> 00:40:10,480
you could argue

1013
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:12,319
that oh this was all a joke and the

1014
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,079
papers were in on it and so on but

1015
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,000
other newspapers in countries like

1016
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,119
canada new zealand australia and

1017
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:23,359
and great britain and so on reported

1018
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:25,920
very similar things with but they were

1019
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:27,920
writing in a really more sober

1020
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:30,160
journalistic voice there's no question

1021
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:31,920
there was an international

1022
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,640
phenomenon of anomalous airships in that

1023
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:36,400
period

1024
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:39,760
and it's it's not easy to explain away

1025
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:41,520
and i the thing that i want to make

1026
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:42,800
clear

1027
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,240
uh

1028
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:46,800
well to myself too as well to everybody

1029
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,480
out there you have to remember there was

1030
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:51,119
no direct line of communication that was

1031
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:54,160
you know instantaneous and and

1032
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,280
you know

1033
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,319
the publishing of of descriptions and

1034
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:00,240
drawings and

1035
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:03,760
uh all of this testimony it wasn't uh

1036
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,480
instantaneous and but yet the

1037
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,319
descriptions are very similar like

1038
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,319
you're saying from canada to the united

1039
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:12,960
you know all across the the country and

1040
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,680
this went on for years this wasn't just

1041
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,280
something that just

1042
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,160
you know was a one-time event and for it

1043
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:22,240
to happen like it did i think there was

1044
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:24,079
something there i

1045
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,119
when

1046
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:27,119
you had said earlier and this is one of

1047
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:28,880
the things i find most fascinating with

1048
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:31,040
this uh era and we we can move on in a

1049
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,480
second is

1050
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:35,040
the zeppelin you know the design that

1051
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:36,400
specific

1052
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,520
uh description that they were giving it

1053
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:42,079
hadn't it it hadn't been invented yet

1054
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:44,480
but yet the descriptions were all

1055
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:47,839
similar i just find that and and and uh

1056
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,760
you know uh uh

1057
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:51,680
crews on the ship

1058
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:53,760
but see or on the ships i should say

1059
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:56,319
we're disembarking and going out and

1060
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:57,680
doing things

1061
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,560
interacting with uh sometimes even

1062
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,520
speaking foreign languages

1063
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:05,680
you know

1064
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:08,079
a word of caution should be inserted

1065
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:09,680
here many other stories from

1066
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:12,400
fabrications in fact i had assumed they

1067
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:14,800
were all fabrications

1068
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:15,760
until

1069
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:17,280
i did

1070
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:20,240
somehow my work i got caught up in this

1071
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,280
one particular case that seemed

1072
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:25,760
really genuinely intriguing and i did

1073
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:27,040
some research and had some

1074
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,319
correspondence with an archivist and

1075
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:32,319
collected a bunch of records and found

1076
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,599
out that

1077
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:35,280
that the witnesses

1078
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:38,880
were absolutely impeccable

1079
00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:39,839
and that

1080
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:43,599
been so affected

1081
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,520
by the experience

1082
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:47,920
of meeting this airship and its crew

1083
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:50,079
that he that has affected the rest of

1084
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,200
his life

1085
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:53,440
and i found press accounts of his sort

1086
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:56,240
of obsessive memories of this event

1087
00:43:01,349 --> 00:43:00,160
which was corroborated by a very highly

1088
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,359
regarded

1089
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:03,599
rabbi from

1090
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:06,560
beaumont texas who also reported that he

1091
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:09,119
had gone to the scene while the event

1092
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:12,480
was by the incident was occurring and

1093
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:16,079
himself had met the same

1094
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,319
airship crew members

1095
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:20,720
and this story was really interesting to

1096
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,079
me the rabbi in particular was a

1097
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:26,400
highly educated man

1098
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:29,040
who started the first temple

1099
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:31,040
in beaumont

1100
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:31,839
and

1101
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:34,400
was very highly regarded in the whole

1102
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:36,720
community not just in the tiny jewish

1103
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:39,520
community beaumont but by everybody the

1104
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,400
community

1105
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,200
leaders and shakers he wrote columns for

1106
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,359
the local newspaper he was involved in

1107
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:47,599
education projects

1108
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:50,800
and this was really about as impressive

1109
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:53,680
a guy as you can imagine he would he

1110
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:55,359
appeared in a

1111
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:57,359
book that came out

1112
00:44:02,790 --> 00:43:59,440
about five years after the airship

1113
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:02,800
sighting is cited as one of the leading

1114
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:05,520
citizens of beaumont there was a big

1115
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:11,109
you couldn't imagine a more impressive

1116
00:44:14,069 --> 00:44:12,079
guy

1117
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:14,079
i'm wondering where this is going so

1118
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:15,680
please continue

1119
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,720
well

1120
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:18,319
if

1121
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:20,160
this persuaded me

1122
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:21,440
that

1123
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,319
amid all the hulk stories

1124
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:27,599
about airship landings this one just did

1125
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:29,920
not look like a hoax

1126
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:32,480
because he was a real guy he was a real

1127
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:35,280
guy and so was so was the rancher jr

1128
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:38,319
legon who with his son claimed this

1129
00:44:41,349 --> 00:44:40,400
experience allegedly the airship had

1130
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,359
landed

1131
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:43,440
on their ranch which was just outside

1132
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:45,520
town late one night i believe it was

1133
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,040
april 19

1134
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:49,119
1897

1135
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:51,280
and the crew had come in and asked for

1136
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:52,400
water

1137
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:54,079
and they'd sat in his house and he'd

1138
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,440
filled up some

1139
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:57,119
some jugs for them

1140
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:58,880
and they talked with him and then they

1141
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:00,560
said oh yeah they were flying around the

1142
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:10,470
and they would be revealing this and

1143
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,720
while this was going on apparently word

1144
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:13,920
got out

1145
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:16,319
and the rabbi

1146
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,240
levy his name was yes went to the site

1147
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:22,640
and um he claimed that he had seen these

1148
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:24,160
men and talked with him and he was he

1149
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,079
was so rattled by the whole experience

1150
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:28,160
he said that he couldn't even remember

1151
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:29,839
what they'd said to him

1152
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:31,680
that the whole thing just seemed unreal

1153
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:33,280
to him

1154
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,240
did the um

1155
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:38,079
at that moment when you're doing this

1156
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:39,520
type of research like you said you

1157
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:41,839
thought you you know everything was you

1158
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:43,839
know just fictitious hoaxes and

1159
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,359
well-written

1160
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,000
funny stories but then you come across

1161
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,880
this levy story in beaumont and you find

1162
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:52,640
out that this guy was an actual

1163
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,079
historical

1164
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,160
you know you can go and and and find

1165
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,640
records of uh i know that he didn't he

1166
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:00,880
built us he built a school i think too

1167
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:03,440
as well right yeah and so there's

1168
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:05,920
this guy really did exist upstanding guy

1169
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:09,599
he's a rabbi uh you know built a church

1170
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:11,520
and like you were saying it not only was

1171
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:14,880
he uh big in the jewish community but he

1172
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:16,720
did things for the community in the city

1173
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:18,560
of beaumont specific that that were

1174
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:20,079
outside of the jewish community so

1175
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,200
here's a guy

1176
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:23,839
he was really an honored citizen of the

1177
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,240
community you know quite outside you

1178
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:28,720
know his religious work

1179
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:31,520
he participated in the community and was

1180
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:34,880
and i i'm pretty sure that a rabbi in

1181
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:37,040
beaumont texas in 1890s is probably

1182
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:39,680
considered an exotic specimen the only

1183
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:42,480
one in town for sure yeah he disarmed

1184
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:44,960
anybody who might have been suspicious

1185
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:48,480
and he was very well liked and

1186
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,160
you know you see

1187
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,079
references to him in all kinds of places

1188
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:54,319
quite apart from you know his

1189
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,079
strange anomalous airship testimony

1190
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,319
um now we keep uh

1191
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,560
let's let's stop and explain a couple of

1192
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,960
things a couple of terms here what is uh

1193
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:07,200
experience anomalies for everybody let's

1194
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,839
let's start there

1195
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:11,680
about 20 years ago i was working on a

1196
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,640
book

1197
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:14,079
um

1198
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:16,400
trying to make sense of people's claims

1199
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:19,599
of extraordinary phenomena

1200
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:20,559
and

1201
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:25,440
it was obvious to me that

1202
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:28,400
many stories that are told by

1203
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:30,640
people who to all appearances are saying

1204
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,200
insincere are just

1205
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:35,040
unprovable

1206
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:37,119
and they also just seem

1207
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:38,720
completely

1208
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:41,520
unlikely to have happened from

1209
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,800
any of our understanding of how reality

1210
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:47,119
works how biology works

1211
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:50,960
you know how the possible works

1212
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:54,079
and yet you have this testimony

1213
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,280
that is genuinely puzzling but even

1214
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:00,240
while it's stubbornly unprovable

1215
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:03,280
so what do you do with that and for

1216
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,839
centuries there have been debates about

1217
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,920
extraordinary phenomena

1218
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:10,079
and one side says yes these things

1219
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:11,520
happen

1220
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:13,440
you know they're real phenomena they

1221
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,200
part of our world and then on the other

1222
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:17,440
side you have people debunkers who just

1223
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:19,599
completely reject this

1224
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:21,839
and keep demanding

1225
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:25,200
proof in the form of bodies or whatever

1226
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:26,880
right right some you can take into a

1227
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:29,599
laboratory and the argument goes on and

1228
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:32,400
on and on and neither side succeeds in

1229
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:35,200
making its case ultimately

1230
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:37,920
so what do you do with that

1231
00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:38,720
you

1232
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,599
begin to wonder maybe there's a category

1233
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:43,680
error here

1234
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:46,319
and the people are trying to make these

1235
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,359
things either more or less

1236
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,359
than they really are

1237
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:53,920
that these things

1238
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:56,319
one thing we know about them

1239
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,960
is that these things exist in memory and

1240
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:00,800
testimony

1241
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,280
proving they exist in any other way

1242
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:05,119
is very difficult to do

1243
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:07,839
but you you can't connect it with

1244
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:09,839
human pathology you can't if you could

1245
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:12,079
connect say that anybody who said that

1246
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:13,839
he had seen

1247
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:16,960
like a ghost or or bigfooted or

1248
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:19,280
something right was a mental case or a

1249
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,680
known liar right that's fine then but

1250
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:23,760
that isn't the way it works either

1251
00:49:30,069 --> 00:49:27,040
well uh and are you referring to i mean

1252
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:30,079
is this just a broad stroke of the pen

1253
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,400
uh with experience anomalies everything

1254
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:34,160
from

1255
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:35,359
uh

1256
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:36,240
you know

1257
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:38,800
i i'm just going to reach here

1258
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:41,599
from the left saying uh

1259
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,400
has talked to an et let's say all the

1260
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:46,800
way to the far right where they

1261
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:48,880
jumped on a spaceship and flew around

1262
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:50,800
jupiter and came back

1263
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:51,599
you know

1264
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:54,720
is it that broad of the stroke well

1265
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,559
those things sound like experience not

1266
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:58,480
only but what are not experience

1267
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:01,599
anomalies are event anomalies where you

1268
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:04,880
can demonstrate that something some this

1269
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:06,160
world

1270
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:08,880
event happened that you have independent

1271
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:10,960
evidence that goes outside memory and

1272
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:13,119
testimony for example

1273
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:15,520
you look at some of the real hardcore

1274
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,200
ufo evidence

1275
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:19,200
and you're dealing with things that seem

1276
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:21,599
irreducible you have

1277
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:24,880
radar visual cases you have cases where

1278
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,599
someone has reported the landing and the

1279
00:50:32,309 --> 00:50:29,599
the case was well investigated and

1280
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,319
documented the physical traces were

1281
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,640
taken into a laboratory and shown to be

1282
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,480
very strange indeed

1283
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:38,400
and suggestive of it

1284
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,520
of a technology that we don't have

1285
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,240
those cases exist that's what i call the

1286
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:46,000
core phenomenon

1287
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:47,359
this is

1288
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,559
the signal in all the noise

1289
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:53,359
and these things

1290
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:56,240
are scientifically approachable

1291
00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:58,240
if you have radar visual you have

1292
00:51:02,230 --> 00:51:00,079
instrumented testimony of physical

1293
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:02,240
traces other kinds of physical evidence

1294
00:51:06,309 --> 00:51:03,839
you have something that scientists can

1295
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:06,319
work with right and scientists

1296
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:07,440
can show

1297
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:10,160
that either this is really interesting

1298
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:12,319
or it's not so interesting you can solve

1299
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:13,200
it

1300
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:14,960
and if

1301
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:16,240
the when we talk about the

1302
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,440
extraterrestrial hypothesis or the eth

1303
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,040
that's what we're talking about i'm a

1304
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:24,000
physical spacecraft visiting the earth's

1305
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:27,200
atmosphere presumably because the galaxy

1306
00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:29,920
as many astronomers now believe is

1307
00:51:32,950 --> 00:51:32,079
densely inhabited

1308
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:32,960
so

1309
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,160
eventually they're going to come over

1310
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:36,480
here and maybe they're already here

1311
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:38,800
well that's a different question from

1312
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:44,950
claims some kind of incredibly highly

1313
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:47,839
strange incident with men in black or

1314
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:51,839
abducting aliens or monsters and things

1315
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:54,240
like that those things don't work in the

1316
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:56,720
extraterrestrial hypothesis and they

1317
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:59,200
also are unprovable

1318
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,520
all you can determine if you investigate

1319
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:03,119
cases like this

1320
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:06,640
is that yes as far as i can tell

1321
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,280
the witness or witnesses really believe

1322
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:11,200
this happened to them

1323
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:14,400
and it seems unlikely that they mistook

1324
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:17,040
some conventional thing for something

1325
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:20,480
very unconventional what is uh because

1326
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:21,920
we're going to jump into this a little

1327
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:26,160
bit deeper right now so uh define eth

1328
00:52:30,549 --> 00:52:28,559
force the extraterrestrial

1329
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:30,559
hypothesis

1330
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:35,280
back to the 19th century and this was

1331
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:38,400
the hypothesis that there's evidence

1332
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:41,200
that visitors from other worlds

1333
00:52:44,549 --> 00:52:43,280
physical visitors and physical

1334
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:44,559
craft

1335
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:46,800
are visiting the earth and people have

1336
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:48,880
seen them they're at least seen their

1337
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:50,720
their ships

1338
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,000
and

1339
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:54,319
there was speculation to that effect

1340
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:56,720
during the airship wave at the turn of

1341
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:59,599
the last century some small number of

1342
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,000
people speculated that these were

1343
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:04,240
actually margin spaceships that's right

1344
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:05,520
everybody thought that mars was

1345
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:07,440
inhabited in those states so if there

1346
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:09,200
were spaceships here they're probably

1347
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:11,040
from mars so there was and there were

1348
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,400
even hoaxes that played to the idea of

1349
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,400
visiting martians

1350
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:18,160
in the

1351
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:22,400
named charles ford who i'm i'm sure most

1352
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:24,400
of your listeners have heard of

1353
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:26,319
and probably have read

1354
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:28,640
collected all kinds of anomalies

1355
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:30,800
from old newspapers reports of just a

1356
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:34,000
range of not psychic phenomena but

1357
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,160
other kinds of weirdness that came to be

1358
00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:39,200
called fortian phenomena after him ford

1359
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,800
thought that

1360
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:43,040
reports of strange lights and shapes in

1361
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:45,520
the sky are probably best explained as

1362
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:48,000
evidence of visitation from another

1363
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:49,280
planet

1364
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:52,000
and so he invented essentially he's

1365
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:54,240
usually credited with inventing the

1366
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,160
extraterrestrial hypothesis he didn't

1367
00:54:01,750 --> 00:53:58,480
call that that term wasn't invented

1368
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:01,760
until the 1960s but when when flying

1369
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:05,920
saucers came along in 1947

1370
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:08,400
a very small number of people mostly

1371
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,760
people associated with a 40 in society

1372
00:54:16,390 --> 00:54:13,200
thought that these might be used and by

1373
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:16,400
the 1950s this idea had become

1374
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:19,280
widespread and there were you know

1375
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:20,960
science fiction movies that played to

1376
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:23,680
that and there was a lot of speculation

1377
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:26,240
and that that that's what flying saucers

1378
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:27,119
were

1379
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:30,160
and the first generation of ufologists

1380
00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:31,920
almost universally assumed that's what

1381
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:36,150
the

1382
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:37,359
um

1383
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:39,760
the wave that happened

1384
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,119
uh in the 50s and you referred to it

1385
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:45,680
earlier and and i always think of like

1386
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:47,359
the mojave desert when i think about

1387
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:48,160
this

1388
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:50,160
what uh the

1389
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:51,359
um

1390
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:52,400
uh the

1391
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:53,440
the

1392
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:01,280
going up and and venus and and martians

1393
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:03,040
and spacecraft

1394
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,920
were

1395
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:06,240
do do you see a relationship between the

1396
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:07,520
two

1397
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:09,520
anomalies the experience anomalies that

1398
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:10,960
were going on

1399
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,680
uh not only in with the airship stuff

1400
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:15,359
but

1401
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:16,160
where

1402
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:19,359
is there a need is for society to just

1403
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:26,069
well

1404
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:27,839
it's a very difficult question now with

1405
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:31,440
the first generation of contactees

1406
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:33,280
you're dealing with two there are two

1407
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:36,240
kinds of people who were claiming

1408
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:37,760
communication with

1409
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,520
space people

1410
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,079
one was the adamski crowd playing

1411
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:44,640
physical interactions with physical

1412
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,119
space people and photographs and

1413
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:49,839
photographs and zamsky even allegedly

1414
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:50,640
had

1415
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,280
tracks of venusian that he'd made in the

1416
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:55,040
desert

1417
00:56:00,829 --> 00:55:57,839
and then there were the people

1418
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:00,839
the visionaries who claimed psychic

1419
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,079
communications with you with ufo beings

1420
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:06,160
or being some other dimensions or

1421
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:07,280
planets

1422
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:09,119
and these people would basically hear

1423
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,119
voices in their head they'd go into a

1424
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,440
trance and i think that these people

1425
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,000
were overwhelmingly sincere and

1426
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,000
certainly their actions suggested that

1427
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:20,400
they that they really believe that space

1428
00:56:24,789 --> 00:56:22,400
people were talking to them they never

1429
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:24,799
provided physical evidence of this it

1430
00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:27,440
was just the messages themselves that

1431
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:30,400
were supposed to convey conviction

1432
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,240
that if you listen to this

1433
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:34,480
you could listen to them channeling

1434
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:37,119
some gibberish from some alien and you

1435
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:38,559
were supposed to be really impressed and

1436
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:39,680
think boy

1437
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:41,200
this person couldn't have made this up

1438
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:43,200
so it must be true

1439
00:56:48,069 --> 00:56:44,960
and if you've ever sat in a channeling

1440
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:48,079
session on one level it's it is an

1441
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:50,880
interesting experience on another level

1442
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:53,440
the information that's coming out of the

1443
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:56,160
person in a trance is clearly not

1444
00:57:06,309 --> 00:57:03,670
and the the the one the one thing that

1445
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:06,319
and you touched upon it a little bit

1446
00:57:10,870 --> 00:57:10,079
very sincere and when you see

1447
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:10,880
uh

1448
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:13,440
photographs and and film

1449
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:14,240
uh

1450
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:16,160
of this period

1451
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:19,440
the these are as normal of a of a

1452
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,160
citizen as you can imagine

1453
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:24,319
you know it looks like your next-door

1454
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:27,040
neighbor it's not not somebody that you

1455
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:29,200
would think uh would make something up

1456
00:57:33,430 --> 00:57:31,280
but i think sincere is the right way to

1457
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:33,440
put it yeah i i used to know a guy who

1458
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:35,040
died a few years ago he's a very nice

1459
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:35,920
guy

1460
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:38,720
he worked as a car repairman

1461
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:41,280
at a body shop in

1462
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:43,440
waukegan illinois that's where i was

1463
00:57:49,510 --> 00:57:46,079
born oh is that right yeah

1464
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:49,520
well this guy believed that he

1465
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:51,040
was

1466
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,280
had been appointed by aliens from

1467
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:55,680
another planet to be

1468
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:58,880
their guy on earth in fact in effect he

1469
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,200
would rule the earth once the mass

1470
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:03,119
landings happened

1471
00:58:06,789 --> 00:58:05,119
and they kept giving him dates and of

1472
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:06,799
course the prophecies always went

1473
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:09,839
unfulfilled as they always do

1474
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:12,400
but if you met this guy he was a family

1475
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,200
man he had a nice wife and a good

1476
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:17,119
relationship with his kids

1477
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:19,920
he's the nicest guy i mean he was just a

1478
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:24,160
sweet guy but he would get these psychic

1479
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:26,880
messages and he believed they were true

1480
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:29,599
and and i listened to him and i was sort

1481
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:31,760
of he was kind of somewhere between a

1482
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:34,480
friend and a subject for me

1483
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:36,799
and i recorded a lot of this stuff and

1484
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:39,280
it was just incredibly

1485
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,040
you know

1486
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:43,760
imaginative and all over the place and

1487
00:58:50,870 --> 00:58:48,640
it just had nothing to do with the life

1488
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:50,880
that this guy led otherwise and that no

1489
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:53,520
one would ever suspect that he had this

1490
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,359
incredibly rich

1491
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,359
i guess you'd call it a fantasy life but

1492
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,160
he accept that he believed it to be true

1493
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:02,160
like a walter mitty type

1494
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:04,480
well it's a psychological phenomenon

1495
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,280
you know it's uh it's a non-pathological

1496
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:09,280
psychic phenom a psychological

1497
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:11,680
phenomenon according to you know

1498
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:13,440
psychologists and psychiatrists who

1499
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,319
studied it that you can indeed

1500
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:18,240
hear voices in your head unless they're

1501
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,680
telling you to kill your mother-in-law

1502
00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:21,359
or something like that right that's not

1503
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,200
good right but if they're just yammering

1504
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,920
on about you know harmless things

1505
00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:27,440
there's nothing wrong with that it's

1506
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:29,040
just one of the

1507
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:30,480
can be just a

1508
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:32,559
kink in your brain it just works that

1509
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:33,359
way

1510
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,920
um we're at the top of the hour let's uh

1511
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:37,680
let's take a quick break

1512
00:59:42,150 --> 00:59:39,520
a couple of minutes and then when we

1513
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:42,160
come back i want to carry on uh and i'm

1514
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:44,400
going to talk about some fairies is that

1515
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:46,799
okay

1516
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:48,880
all right jerry just stay with this uh

1517
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:50,799
take a break couple of minutes

1518
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:54,000
and we'll be back right after this kjcr

1519
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,920
jerome clark

1520
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:57,839
fade to black

1521
01:00:11,190 --> 00:59:59,359
we'll be back right after this stay with

1522
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:16,549
1 800 911

1523
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:18,150
that's the number you need to call when

1524
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:20,400
you are seeking spiritual enlightenment

1525
01:00:23,829 --> 01:00:22,480
and searching for your true purpose here

1526
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:23,839
on earth

1527
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:28,470
they provide

1528
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:31,119
psychic readings love spells reversal of

1529
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:34,240
spells custom spells chakra balancing

1530
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:37,280
energy work divine guidance is just one

1531
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:38,880
phone call away

1532
01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:44,630
for your free psychic reading

1533
01:00:49,829 --> 01:00:45,839
i did

1534
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:52,150
listening jimmy church on

1535
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:53,920
jimmychurchradio.com

1536
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:55,119
my name is nick

1537
01:00:59,109 --> 01:00:56,880
hi i'm rex dominguez and i listen to

1538
01:01:02,630 --> 01:00:59,119
jimmychurpradio.com

1539
01:01:04,910 --> 01:01:02,640
jimmy your preacher amen this is toby

1540
01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:04,920
kebbell you're listening to

1541
01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:07,520
jimmychurchradio.com don't hurt me jimmy

1542
01:01:12,069 --> 01:01:10,240
i'm only little hey i'm adrian grenier

1543
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:12,079
and this is ari gold we're the honey

1544
01:01:20,549 --> 01:01:18,950
hey i'm adrian grenier and i'm ari gold

1545
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:20,559
we're the honey brothers

1546
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:22,799
and you're listening to jimmy church a

1547
01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:31,670
jimmychurchradio.com

1548
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:34,230
despite popular opinion

1549
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:38,640
reading a book will not make you smarter

1550
01:02:04,150 --> 01:01:41,040
but listening to jimmy church will

1551
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:06,390
all right everybody welcome back kjcr

1552
01:02:09,270 --> 01:02:07,839
this is fade to black i'm your host

1553
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,280
jimmy church we're on the dark matter

1554
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:11,440
radio network

1555
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:15,280
talking to jerome clark

1556
01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:16,799
now

1557
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:20,799
jerry are you with us yep okay great

1558
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:22,720
um

1559
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:25,280
in reading this this is the thing and i

1560
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:27,599
can't wait for everybody to uh

1561
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:30,960
to actually see the uh and read through

1562
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:34,319
uh your presentation uh later on tonight

1563
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:36,160
after the show so they can understand

1564
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:37,599
but when i was

1565
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,440
reading through it today i had a couple

1566
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:41,760
of real aha moments

1567
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:43,920
and i actually went back

1568
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:46,079
and and i read everything a second time

1569
01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:49,359
because it just it for me it just

1570
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:51,839
clarified some of my own personal

1571
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:53,280
beliefs

1572
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:57,839
and and one of those anomalies that uh

1573
01:03:01,349 --> 01:03:00,480
that is consistent throughout time going

1574
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:01,359
back

1575
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:03,680
ages and generations

1576
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:05,520
is uh

1577
01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:08,960
you know uh uh fairies and

1578
01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:11,440
and relationships that uh people have

1579
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:15,359
had with things throughout history that

1580
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,039
are unprovable

1581
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:19,520
and so let's let's just start from the

1582
01:03:24,150 --> 01:03:21,839
beginning with that and and you you go

1583
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:24,160
back to scottish myth too so if you want

1584
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:26,240
to start there that's fine

1585
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:28,640
but uh please tell us about because i'm

1586
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:31,200
i'm telling you i had a real aha moment

1587
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:33,680
with this and it was just it was uh

1588
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:36,400
clarifying so please see if you can

1589
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:39,200
clarify everybody like i was today

1590
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:40,799
well most of us

1591
01:03:45,390 --> 01:03:42,480
in fact all of us i'm sure when we hear

1592
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:45,400
the word fairy tale assume that the

1593
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:48,079
references is some ridiculous

1594
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,640
thing that is just absurd and

1595
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:52,960
unbelievable it would take up the time

1596
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,119
of no serious person

1597
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:57,599
in fact there is enormous literature

1598
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:59,520
mostly by folklorists and

1599
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:01,359
anthropologists

1600
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:02,319
of

1601
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:07,680
and

1602
01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:11,039
any society anywhere has a fairy

1603
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:12,960
tradition they don't always call them

1604
01:04:16,789 --> 01:04:14,960
fairies but it's tradition

1605
01:04:19,029 --> 01:04:16,799
of a race of

1606
01:04:20,470 --> 01:04:19,039
of supernatural

1607
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:20,480
people who

1608
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:22,240
live

1609
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:23,680
hidden

1610
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,520
next to us

1611
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:27,119
now when you say that let me just jump

1612
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:28,559
in really quick

1613
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:29,520
uh

1614
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:30,880
asian

1615
01:04:36,390 --> 01:04:34,480
uh persian egyptian african you know

1616
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:36,400
when you say everything you you're

1617
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:38,480
you're going across the board yeah the

1618
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,960
indian tribes of the americas all have

1619
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:42,480
these traditions

1620
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:44,880
and everywhere pacific islands you go

1621
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:47,280
anywhere there is a tradition

1622
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:50,400
and in all these traditions

1623
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:51,359
people

1624
01:04:58,470 --> 01:04:55,839
report not just legends and rumors and

1625
01:05:00,390 --> 01:04:58,480
you know folklore but you always will

1626
01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:00,400
find people who with a completely

1627
01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:01,760
straight face

1628
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:04,400
will tell you about their own personal

1629
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:05,760
experience

1630
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:09,200
with one of these supernatural entities

1631
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:10,079
and

1632
01:05:16,950 --> 01:05:11,200
the

1633
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:16,960
tradition

1634
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:20,880
was a book published in 1791

1635
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:23,520
by the reverend robert kirk the name of

1636
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:26,960
the book is the secret commonwealth

1637
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,789
kirk was a

1638
01:05:37,349 --> 01:05:34,480
pastor to rural

1639
01:05:39,430 --> 01:05:37,359
parish she was presbyterian minister

1640
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:39,440
and he was intensely interested in these

1641
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,240
stories that he was hearing from his

1642
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:44,160
parishioners about

1643
01:05:49,029 --> 01:05:46,319
what they called the good people or the

1644
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:49,039
gentry or the fair folk they didn't call

1645
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:50,799
them fairies they're afraid to call them

1646
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:53,119
that because they believed that the

1647
01:05:56,950 --> 01:05:54,720
fairies could be invisible and they

1648
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:56,960
might be listening to them and they

1649
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:59,119
didn't like people talking about their

1650
01:06:02,870 --> 01:06:00,079
business

1651
01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:02,880
so they had these euphemisms

1652
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:04,960
but

1653
01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:07,599
kirk who was an educated man among

1654
01:06:12,789 --> 01:06:09,920
people who weren't terribly educated but

1655
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:12,799
they were telling him these stories and

1656
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:14,960
and um he really got interested in the

1657
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,480
mini and even in the 18th century among

1658
01:06:24,069 --> 01:06:20,559
educated people among the elites of

1659
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:24,079
society belief in fairies was would

1660
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:26,799
get you nothing but ridicule

1661
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,280
so even in the 18th century there was

1662
01:06:33,829 --> 01:06:31,520
great skepticism of this

1663
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:33,839
but kirk was really interested he wrote

1664
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:34,960
this down

1665
01:06:38,950 --> 01:06:37,520
and then he writes this book

1666
01:06:41,589 --> 01:06:38,960
on the assumption

1667
01:06:44,549 --> 01:06:41,599
that these creatures are real and he

1668
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:44,559
describes what they're like what they do

1669
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:47,680
and it's really an amazing book and it's

1670
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:50,400
almost is one of the great classic works

1671
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,520
in

1672
01:06:55,990 --> 01:06:53,599
whether you call it

1673
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:56,000
the lore or the supernatural or or

1674
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:57,680
folklore it's a book that's that's

1675
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:00,400
admired by just about anybody who reads

1676
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:03,119
it including enough scholars who have

1677
01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:05,200
traced this tradition through the

1678
01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:06,559
centuries

1679
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,760
and uh what he described is still pretty

1680
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:11,280
much true of

1681
01:07:17,109 --> 01:07:14,480
the fairy tradition as it is continued

1682
01:07:19,029 --> 01:07:17,119
into the present now belief in fairies

1683
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:19,039
of course is pretty rare

1684
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:20,480
now

1685
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:22,000
but

1686
01:07:26,710 --> 01:07:24,640
people still

1687
01:07:28,710 --> 01:07:26,720
have these experiences

1688
01:07:30,549 --> 01:07:28,720
and i don't mean just crazy people i

1689
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:30,559
mean normal people

1690
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:31,280
and

1691
01:07:39,349 --> 01:07:36,480
we're not talking

1692
01:07:41,910 --> 01:07:39,359
necessarily about fairies

1693
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:41,920
uh you know with wings and and a magic

1694
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:44,640
wand you know dancing around with a

1695
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:47,039
fairy dust that is not the fairy of

1696
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:48,640
tradition that's the ferry that was

1697
01:07:52,150 --> 01:07:49,680
invented

1698
01:07:55,109 --> 01:07:52,160
in 19th century victorian children's

1699
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:55,119
literature no what people generally

1700
01:08:00,230 --> 01:07:58,240
in the the fairies of tradition are

1701
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:00,240
don't have wings and they're they're

1702
01:08:07,109 --> 01:08:04,000
usually not always small

1703
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:07,119
and they're dressed in kind of

1704
01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:10,880
you know exotic or rustic clothing

1705
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:13,280
and they're they're not

1706
01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:15,200
entities according to the traditional

1707
01:08:19,749 --> 01:08:17,120
belief that you'd want to run into

1708
01:08:21,910 --> 01:08:19,759
because they're they can be very nasty

1709
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:21,920
and they're unpredictable

1710
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:24,480
and you don't want to see them and they

1711
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:25,839
also have

1712
01:08:29,829 --> 01:08:28,400
uh a society i mean that you know they

1713
01:08:30,789 --> 01:08:29,839
have neighbors they have houses they

1714
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:30,799
have

1715
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,239
uh lives uh structure and community we

1716
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:36,080
just can't see it right they have a

1717
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:39,040
queen yeah right exactly according to

1718
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:39,920
the

1719
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:45,600
tradition of ireland and scotland

1720
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:48,000
but anyway so anyway you read a book by

1721
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:50,960
an anthropologist or folklorist about

1722
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:54,000
the tradition and you'll come upon not

1723
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:56,080
just you know the legends which you

1724
01:09:00,550 --> 01:08:57,600
which is what you're expecting to

1725
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:00,560
encounter of course but actual testimony

1726
01:09:07,990 --> 01:09:05,349
people don't but this isn't that doesn't

1727
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:08,000
really happen it's just a belief from a

1728
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:11,279
naive superstitious

1729
01:09:14,950 --> 01:09:13,040
past

1730
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:14,960
but no there are people

1731
01:09:17,910 --> 01:09:16,400
all over

1732
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:17,920
who believed

1733
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:19,920
that they had had these experiences and

1734
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,640
these experiential claims also fueled

1735
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:24,719
the tradition so the tradition wasn't

1736
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:27,839
just out of nowhere it was came out of

1737
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:31,679
people's alleged first-hand experiences

1738
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:33,600
now folklores have dealt with this in

1739
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:36,319
interesting ways

1740
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:43,829
folklorists would collect these stories

1741
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:45,839
in the field and somebody would say well

1742
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:48,799
i had i was one night i was coming home

1743
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:51,839
and i saw this light and within this

1744
01:09:55,350 --> 01:09:53,600
light there were these little people

1745
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,360
dancing and i heard this

1746
01:09:59,430 --> 01:09:57,600
beautiful music most beautifully i've

1747
01:10:01,669 --> 01:09:59,440
ever heard and they tried to get me to

1748
01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:01,679
go into the circle with them

1749
01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:03,360
and i knew better than to do that

1750
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,719
because i knew if i went to circle

1751
01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:06,640
they'd take me away with them so you get

1752
01:10:12,070 --> 01:10:08,080
these stories that you know just

1753
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:12,080
completely naive testimony by people who

1754
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:14,320
didn't seem to be joking right but

1755
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:17,360
rather frightened and so the folklore

1756
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:18,880
thought there's some we got to explain

1757
01:10:22,790 --> 01:10:20,719
this and so they would come up with

1758
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:22,800
different explanations one of the

1759
01:10:26,950 --> 01:10:25,199
popular explanation was that the

1760
01:10:28,070 --> 01:10:26,960
the pics who were the people who

1761
01:10:29,910 --> 01:10:28,080
inhabited

1762
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:29,920
the british isles before the celts

1763
01:10:33,990 --> 01:10:31,360
arrived

1764
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:34,000
um were hadn't been completely wiped out

1765
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,440
that they were still alive and they were

1766
01:10:39,030 --> 01:10:37,520
hiding in the hills and caves and stuff

1767
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:39,040
well

1768
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:40,800
that was a pop actually a popular

1769
01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:42,000
theorist were proposed in a book

1770
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:44,000
published in 1990

1771
01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:46,719
and that sort of died for absolute want

1772
01:10:52,790 --> 01:10:49,600
of any evidence whatsoever

1773
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:52,800
and in what one recent book

1774
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:54,400
the author is

1775
01:10:57,910 --> 01:10:55,679
dealing with

1776
01:11:00,149 --> 01:10:57,920
this tradition and she's

1777
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:00,159
like anybody who comes into this bumps

1778
01:11:05,430 --> 01:11:02,640
up against these experiential claims and

1779
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:05,440
she says well they

1780
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:07,360
they they came out of

1781
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:09,440
out of sightings of severely deformed

1782
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:10,400
people

1783
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:13,120
period no footnote

1784
01:11:18,630 --> 01:11:15,920
no further discussion no proof right

1785
01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:18,640
right right right i mean yeah and so

1786
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:19,440
but

1787
01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:22,640
one very classic work in in folklore was

1788
01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:25,440
published in 1911 by

1789
01:11:32,229 --> 01:11:28,880
walter evans wentz his book titled

1790
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:32,239
the fairy faith in celtic countries

1791
01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:34,800
around the turn of the last century

1792
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:36,800
um

1793
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:38,480
evans wentz who was a young

1794
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,000
anthropologist

1795
01:11:43,910 --> 01:11:42,560
traveled through the celtic regions of

1796
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:43,920
western europe

1797
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:46,560
which just included brittany and france

1798
01:11:53,830 --> 01:11:47,679
and then

1799
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:53,840
and collected testimony about the

1800
01:11:57,510 --> 01:11:55,040
surviving

1801
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:57,520
tradition of fairylord and he collected

1802
01:12:01,510 --> 01:12:00,000
a lot of you know the legends and so on

1803
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:01,520
which this is interesting stuff in

1804
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,560
itself

1805
01:12:06,149 --> 01:12:04,560
but he also you know kept running into

1806
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:06,159
people told him they're in personal

1807
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:08,400
encounters these stories are very

1808
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:10,400
strange these are not the fairies of

1809
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:12,880
walt disney these are really strange

1810
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:13,840
stories

1811
01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:15,840
it's strange in their own way as ufo

1812
01:12:22,070 --> 01:12:18,880
abduction narratives are today

1813
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:22,080
and he concluded that that fairies do

1814
01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:24,239
exist as some kind of

1815
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:25,040
you know

1816
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,800
supernatural

1817
01:12:30,709 --> 01:12:28,239
race

1818
01:12:35,510 --> 01:12:30,719
that it is possible under some

1819
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:36,630
what

1820
01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:38,640
i want you to um

1821
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,840
explain to me that the the connection

1822
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:42,880
again

1823
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,360
we're just talking i've read it but

1824
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:47,679
explain the connection with modern

1825
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:51,520
ufology and contactees and that anomaly

1826
01:12:57,510 --> 01:12:53,040
with the

1827
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:57,520
the fairy tales and and stories from

1828
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:59,600
uh hundreds of years ago

1829
01:13:02,709 --> 01:13:01,920
well what what these fairy encounters

1830
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:02,719
are

1831
01:13:12,149 --> 01:13:10,400
they exist in memory and testimony

1832
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:12,159
but nowhere else

1833
01:13:17,270 --> 01:13:14,719
you can't prove them you can't disprove

1834
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,280
them all you have is this very strange

1835
01:13:21,430 --> 01:13:19,520
people this very strange

1836
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:21,440
testimony of people

1837
01:13:25,270 --> 01:13:23,040
who recounting

1838
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:25,280
experiences that to them

1839
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:26,560
were

1840
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:29,440
vivid and had the resonance of like real

1841
01:13:35,110 --> 01:13:31,520
encounters with real things in the real

1842
01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:35,120
world even though they weren't

1843
01:13:38,229 --> 01:13:36,239
now

1844
01:13:40,630 --> 01:13:38,239
an experienced anomaly is really

1845
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:40,640
something that is neither real nor real

1846
01:13:43,990 --> 01:13:42,960
but hap nor unreal but happens in some

1847
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,000
kind of

1848
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:46,640
you know threshold or liminal zone

1849
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:47,760
between

1850
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:51,120
you know real life encounter and this

1851
01:13:56,470 --> 01:13:54,400
sort of encounter we have in our dreams

1852
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,480
or in our imagination it is something

1853
01:14:01,590 --> 01:13:58,560
that kind of partakes

1854
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:01,600
of elements of both it's kind of like

1855
01:14:07,990 --> 01:14:05,600
an extremely anomalous hallucination

1856
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:08,000
or an image from a dream that just pops

1857
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:09,600
into waking

1858
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:12,320
consciousness and even apparently waking

1859
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:15,199
vision it is something that is clearly

1860
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:16,480
beyond

1861
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:18,960
current knowledge but it happens to

1862
01:14:22,070 --> 01:14:21,280
people all the time and i don't mean

1863
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,080
just

1864
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:24,239
fairies but all kinds of extraordinary

1865
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:25,600
entities

1866
01:14:28,870 --> 01:14:26,400
that

1867
01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:28,880
people report seeing whether you know

1868
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:31,199
monsters dragons

1869
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:34,560
sure sure sure things like that have you

1870
01:14:38,790 --> 01:14:35,760
um

1871
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:38,800
have you experienced anything yourself

1872
01:14:42,070 --> 01:14:40,320
not i'm not talking

1873
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,080
you know anything direct or maybe you

1874
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:44,640
have i i i answer yes i have directly

1875
01:14:50,950 --> 01:14:48,320
experienced not alas an elfin figure i'd

1876
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:50,960
love to encounter one of those okay but

1877
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:53,199
i actually did have an experience one

1878
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:55,040
time and

1879
01:14:59,110 --> 01:14:57,600
and that causes you to of course because

1880
01:15:01,590 --> 01:14:59,120
i've had you know a couple of little

1881
01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:01,600
things that have popped up too where you

1882
01:15:06,070 --> 01:15:03,760
just stop and go okay all right

1883
01:15:08,870 --> 01:15:06,080
there's a lot of consistency here now

1884
01:15:10,310 --> 01:15:08,880
but now i've had my experience and i've

1885
01:15:11,830 --> 01:15:10,320
got to take this a little bit more

1886
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:11,840
serious

1887
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:13,840
and can you tell me about the experience

1888
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:14,960
that you had

1889
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:17,040
well the experience was it didn't really

1890
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:18,800
work like that for me

1891
01:15:22,709 --> 01:15:20,400
i've spent

1892
01:15:24,550 --> 01:15:22,719
most of my life reading people's strange

1893
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:24,560
stories or hearing people's strange

1894
01:15:28,390 --> 01:15:26,320
stories and accepting that yeah you know

1895
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:28,400
this could happen i'm sure this person

1896
01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:29,199
had

1897
01:15:33,430 --> 01:15:31,600
this experience however you interpret it

1898
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:33,440
the person seems sincere about it and

1899
01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:35,760
this does seem really hard to explain

1900
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:38,400
but when i had my experience

1901
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:41,520
i absolutely refused to believe that i

1902
01:15:45,110 --> 01:15:44,320
had seen something extraordinary even

1903
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:45,120
though

1904
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:47,280
everything about it is i look back in

1905
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:49,679
retrospect it happened to me three times

1906
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:51,760
in one summer

1907
01:15:57,510 --> 01:15:54,640
and uh but i and each time it was only

1908
01:16:00,870 --> 01:15:57,520
the last time i saw that i realized this

1909
01:16:02,790 --> 01:16:00,880
is really really strange and if anybody

1910
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:02,800
else had told me this story i'd have

1911
01:16:06,390 --> 01:16:04,800
recognized immediately this is really an

1912
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:06,400
extraordinary anomaly

1913
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:09,360
but what i encountered was

1914
01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:12,800
basically a phantom quadruped that

1915
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:15,760
vanished in front of my eyes

1916
01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:19,040
in in my front lawn okay treat on three

1917
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:20,880
summer evenings the last time my wife

1918
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:23,120
was with me

1919
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:25,440
continue i mean i've got 50 questions i

1920
01:16:29,510 --> 01:16:27,280
can ask but i'll just let you just tell

1921
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:29,520
the story uh what happened the first

1922
01:16:34,709 --> 01:16:32,320
time the first time we in those days we

1923
01:16:35,910 --> 01:16:34,719
had a dog that we really loved and

1924
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:35,920
and um

1925
01:16:39,990 --> 01:16:38,239
but if we let her out the front door she

1926
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:40,000
just wandered through the neighborhood

1927
01:16:43,910 --> 01:16:41,840
and we did spend hours trying to find

1928
01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:43,920
her so he built a big fence in the back

1929
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:46,000
so she was so she could go out in the

1930
01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:48,400
back and run around and wasn't confined

1931
01:16:53,669 --> 01:16:50,560
to the house all the time so when i saw

1932
01:16:55,030 --> 01:16:53,679
this thing i i'd come home about 10 30

1933
01:16:56,390 --> 01:16:55,040
at night i'd been working on my

1934
01:16:58,229 --> 01:16:56,400
encyclopedia

1935
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:58,239
in those days i rented an office

1936
01:17:02,550 --> 01:17:00,239
elsewhere in our little town

1937
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:02,560
and so i was coming home about 10 30

1938
01:17:06,149 --> 01:17:04,400
and i saw

1939
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:06,159
this big

1940
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:08,159
thing which i couldn't see very well but

1941
01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:09,520
it was like a big

1942
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:12,800
quadruped and i assumed it was a big dog

1943
01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:16,640
and misha our dog was a big dog uh what

1944
01:17:21,910 --> 01:17:19,440
is misha doing on the front porch

1945
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:21,920
and um

1946
01:17:27,910 --> 01:17:24,320
and i started walking toward her i like

1947
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:27,920
to retrace it's 15 feet between

1948
01:17:32,070 --> 01:17:31,199
where i parked my car in our front door

1949
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:32,080
and

1950
01:17:42,310 --> 01:17:40,000
trying to get a better look at it

1951
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:42,320
because i couldn't quite see it

1952
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:44,159
very well just so that i could identify

1953
01:17:49,189 --> 01:17:46,080
it but it had the contours of a large

1954
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:49,199
dog how how tall

1955
01:17:53,430 --> 01:17:52,640
a hundred pound 50 pounds two feet four

1956
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:53,440
feet

1957
01:17:58,470 --> 01:17:55,760
uh 100 pounds i would guess so a good

1958
01:17:59,750 --> 01:17:58,480
size a dog a

1959
01:18:01,110 --> 01:17:59,760
it was about

1960
01:18:03,669 --> 01:18:01,120
you know we

1961
01:18:06,070 --> 01:18:03,679
misha was an ash bosch which is a dog

1962
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:06,080
that looks a lot like a yellow lab

1963
01:18:11,350 --> 01:18:07,040
okay

1964
01:18:13,030 --> 01:18:11,360
except a little bit meatier beefier

1965
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:13,040
and um

1966
01:18:17,270 --> 01:18:16,080
so i see this thing go off the front

1967
01:18:18,950 --> 01:18:17,280
porch

1968
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:18,960
heading

1969
01:18:24,310 --> 01:18:21,199
toward our neighbors

1970
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:24,320
and and it's as it moved it sort of

1971
01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:26,480
stayed in the shadow this was a summer

1972
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:28,159
night and there was lights from the

1973
01:18:31,669 --> 01:18:29,440
street lights

1974
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:31,679
but i could but it sort of stayed in the

1975
01:18:35,430 --> 01:18:33,199
shadows i could never get a good look at

1976
01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:35,440
it as i was following it trying to

1977
01:18:39,590 --> 01:18:38,080
figure out what kind of animal it was

1978
01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:39,600
that by this time i knew it wasn't our

1979
01:18:43,510 --> 01:18:41,360
dog

1980
01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:43,520
it just disappeared how close did you

1981
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:50,470
oh man probably no more than

1982
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:53,120
six seven feet no less than six seven

1983
01:18:57,430 --> 01:18:54,880
feet oh so you were right there okay

1984
01:19:00,550 --> 01:18:57,440
there's no quite it's not like you were

1985
01:19:02,070 --> 01:19:00,560
50 yards away oh no no you're right on

1986
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:02,080
so you can see okay

1987
01:19:06,790 --> 01:19:04,560
and then about two weeks later exactly

1988
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:06,800
the same thing happened

1989
01:19:11,990 --> 01:19:09,199
now i was not thinking that i had seen a

1990
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:12,000
ghost or anything weird

1991
01:19:16,550 --> 01:19:14,400
i kept even though it had disappeared in

1992
01:19:17,350 --> 01:19:16,560
front of my eyes this is how crazy this

1993
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:17,360
is

1994
01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:19,520
i kept thinking okay what kind of animal

1995
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:21,760
is this and i began i

1996
01:19:25,350 --> 01:19:23,760
pulled down books on wildlife and

1997
01:19:27,350 --> 01:19:25,360
domestic pets and stuff from my

1998
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:27,360
bookshelves i have books on just about

1999
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:29,520
everything in my library and did some

2000
01:19:33,430 --> 01:19:31,199
internet searches trying to figure out

2001
01:19:35,350 --> 01:19:33,440
talk with my wife and talk with people

2002
01:19:38,229 --> 01:19:35,360
in the neighborhood

2003
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:38,239
and it just nobody knew what i was

2004
01:19:43,510 --> 01:19:40,640
talking about well you can't exactly

2005
01:19:46,709 --> 01:19:43,520
look up disappearing quadruped

2006
01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:46,719
that chapter in a book had this fixation

2007
01:19:51,510 --> 01:19:48,880
that this was something normal was just

2008
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:51,520
unusual i could solve it right i was not

2009
01:19:55,669 --> 01:19:53,040
thinking i had seen anything

2010
01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:55,679
extraordinary okay so finally

2011
01:20:00,630 --> 01:19:58,320
through bizarre circumstances a couple

2012
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:00,640
weeks after my second sighting

2013
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:03,600
my in those days my mother was alive and

2014
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:05,440
she had ms

2015
01:20:10,470 --> 01:20:08,400
and she would sometimes fall out of bed

2016
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:10,480
and she couldn't get back up and so we'd

2017
01:20:13,510 --> 01:20:11,760
have to go over the middle of night to

2018
01:20:15,350 --> 01:20:13,520
help her and she had the service that

2019
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:15,360
would call us and say that she needed

2020
01:20:17,669 --> 01:20:16,800
help

2021
01:20:19,350 --> 01:20:17,679
so

2022
01:20:22,070 --> 01:20:19,360
celine and i got out of bed and we went

2023
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:22,080
over my mother's got her back into bed

2024
01:20:26,629 --> 01:20:24,239
we come back

2025
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:26,639
and there's a light on in the neighbor's

2026
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:27,840
house

2027
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:28,880
and

2028
01:20:34,229 --> 01:20:32,000
it leads to a bunch of stuff he had to

2029
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:34,239
call the police and stuff and

2030
01:20:38,629 --> 01:20:36,719
and it turned out that the house was

2031
01:20:40,149 --> 01:20:38,639
there was some electrical wire problem

2032
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:40,159
and the house would have burned down but

2033
01:20:45,750 --> 01:20:41,920
for the circumstance that we haven't be

2034
01:20:47,910 --> 01:20:45,760
awake at quarter to four in the morning

2035
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:47,920
that could see this happening so anyway

2036
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:50,080
the police come over and we always get

2037
01:20:56,149 --> 01:20:53,199
taken care of so we turn back to go to

2038
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:56,159
our house which is right next door

2039
01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:00,880
and there's the thing on the porch

2040
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:05,040
and i yelled oh man there it is and i

2041
01:21:08,470 --> 01:21:06,400
was i

2042
01:21:11,189 --> 01:21:08,480
this time i was going to get a good look

2043
01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:11,199
at it and who was with you my wife and

2044
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:13,360
any anybody else that's no by that time

2045
01:21:16,629 --> 01:21:15,280
the police and some other people who

2046
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:16,639
would help get them get in the house

2047
01:21:20,470 --> 01:21:18,960
were gone but just us two quarter four

2048
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:20,480
in the morning

2049
01:21:26,629 --> 01:21:24,480
and i ran as fast as i possibly could

2050
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:26,639
toward this thing

2051
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:29,280
which my wife also saw

2052
01:21:34,470 --> 01:21:32,159
and it does exactly what it did the

2053
01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:34,480
other two times

2054
01:21:38,470 --> 01:21:36,719
it goes off the porch to in the

2055
01:21:41,110 --> 01:21:38,480
southwest direction to our neighbor's

2056
01:21:45,030 --> 01:21:41,120
yard and vanishes there and that was the

2057
01:21:48,790 --> 01:21:45,040
end of it no moral no purpose

2058
01:21:52,070 --> 01:21:48,800
it was just weird did you ever uh uh

2059
01:21:53,430 --> 01:21:52,080
you didn't mention did you see its face

2060
01:21:55,030 --> 01:21:53,440
no it was

2061
01:21:57,270 --> 01:21:55,040
it was just like

2062
01:22:00,550 --> 01:21:57,280
because it was moving away from you

2063
01:22:03,270 --> 01:22:00,560
yeah it also was like a shade

2064
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:03,280
it wasn't like a full-bodied thing it

2065
01:22:06,310 --> 01:22:04,400
was like

2066
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:06,320
sometimes i described as more like the

2067
01:22:10,709 --> 01:22:09,040
idea of a thing than the thing itself

2068
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:10,719
you know that's really spooky you know

2069
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:12,960
that's what you're telling me is really

2070
01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:16,400
sp that's a campfire story yeah and what

2071
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:18,000
i think it was

2072
01:22:23,270 --> 01:22:21,040
was something out that of a folklore

2073
01:22:25,830 --> 01:22:23,280
that i am familiar with it also has its

2074
01:22:28,149 --> 01:22:25,840
experiential component and that is the

2075
01:22:30,870 --> 01:22:28,159
phenomenon of the black dog the

2076
01:22:33,110 --> 01:22:30,880
supernatural canine which is also

2077
01:22:35,830 --> 01:22:33,120
a worldwide tradition if you know robert

2078
01:22:37,510 --> 01:22:35,840
johnson's famous blues oh absolutely

2079
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:37,520
hell hound on my

2080
01:22:41,990 --> 01:22:39,840
that's what he's talking about

2081
01:22:44,550 --> 01:22:42,000
because in 1930s

2082
01:22:45,590 --> 01:22:44,560
mississippi among african-americans

2083
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:45,600
there was

2084
01:22:51,669 --> 01:22:48,960
a robust tradition of black dogs i think

2085
01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:51,679
that what i saw was part of that

2086
01:22:55,189 --> 01:22:54,080
tradition of weird stuff

2087
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:55,199
so when

2088
01:22:59,350 --> 01:22:57,600
finally and this happened when you were

2089
01:23:01,189 --> 01:22:59,360
writing the encyclopedia right so this

2090
01:23:02,709 --> 01:23:01,199
was in the night oh i was writing

2091
01:23:04,550 --> 01:23:02,719
actually i wasn't writing exactly i was

2092
01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:04,560
done with him so i was it must been

2093
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:05,920
writing something else because this was

2094
01:23:10,950 --> 01:23:08,080
in 2000. well he finished up the

2095
01:23:12,149 --> 01:23:10,960
encyclopedia by 1997. so i was working

2096
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:12,159
on some other book which i don't

2097
01:23:18,310 --> 01:23:16,000
remember off my head and my point is

2098
01:23:20,310 --> 01:23:18,320
you're you're a mature adult at this

2099
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:20,320
point in your life and you had never

2100
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:22,960
experienced anything but you've been

2101
01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:25,040
collecting all this data you're writing

2102
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:27,280
and you're researching and you're

2103
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:30,320
authoring books and publishing

2104
01:23:34,149 --> 01:23:32,560
and then suddenly this happens

2105
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:34,159
did it just cause you to just take a

2106
01:23:38,149 --> 01:23:36,320
step back and go well you know what

2107
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:38,159
maybe some of these people aren't as

2108
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:39,440
crazy as

2109
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:42,000
as i thought they were but what i took

2110
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:44,239
away from it was that

2111
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:47,120
there's this enormous socialization

2112
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:49,679
against believing anything weird can

2113
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,560
happen exactly and even though i know

2114
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:54,560
intellectually that weird stuff happens

2115
01:23:59,350 --> 01:23:57,120
and it happens all the time i could not

2116
01:24:01,910 --> 01:23:59,360
accept that it could happen to me

2117
01:24:04,550 --> 01:24:01,920
that if something happened to me i could

2118
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:04,560
explain it and that was such a strange

2119
01:24:12,149 --> 01:24:07,120
and unexpected reaction on my part that

2120
01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:12,159
it still causes me wonder well and and

2121
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:12,960
the

2122
01:24:18,470 --> 01:24:17,280
you like your friend from waukegan for

2123
01:24:20,229 --> 01:24:18,480
instance

2124
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:20,239
where you know they're coming to you and

2125
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,800
they're telling you this uh fantastical

2126
01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:24,480
story or tale

2127
01:24:29,270 --> 01:24:26,400
truth or not

2128
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:29,280
but they still have the courage

2129
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:32,239
to come to you and talk now you have to

2130
01:24:36,629 --> 01:24:33,760
go to somebody

2131
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:36,639
and possibly tell this story too

2132
01:24:41,669 --> 01:24:39,679
did you feel empathy for the witnesses

2133
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:41,679
of the past because now you are put in

2134
01:24:46,390 --> 01:24:44,000
that position of having to tell the

2135
01:24:48,070 --> 01:24:46,400
fantastic story oh i don't care if

2136
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:48,080
people think i'm crazy that's not the

2137
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:52,870
oh

2138
01:24:58,390 --> 01:24:55,440
how did you deal with it how did you did

2139
01:25:01,669 --> 01:24:59,910
how many times have you told the story

2140
01:25:03,510 --> 01:25:01,679
by the way well i wrote about it

2141
01:25:05,189 --> 01:25:03,520
actually the journal of scientific

2142
01:25:07,590 --> 01:25:05,199
exploration which is published by the

2143
01:25:09,390 --> 01:25:07,600
society for scientific exploration asked

2144
01:25:11,910 --> 01:25:09,400
me to one time to write an

2145
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,920
autobiographical essay about which i

2146
01:25:15,669 --> 01:25:13,199
wrote several years ago it's called

2147
01:25:17,910 --> 01:25:15,679
among the anomalies and it's about my

2148
01:25:19,830 --> 01:25:17,920
life studying weird stuff and being

2149
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:19,840
around that and the whole thing starts

2150
01:25:23,830 --> 01:25:22,239
with with a detailed account the story i

2151
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:23,840
just told you

2152
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:25,440
are you comfortable in telling the story

2153
01:25:27,990 --> 01:25:26,400
now oh

2154
01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:28,000
absolutely i mean

2155
01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:29,679
you know anybody who thinks that i'm

2156
01:25:33,990 --> 01:25:31,600
lying or i'm crazy well how can i prove

2157
01:25:37,030 --> 01:25:34,000
i'm not it was just a classic experience

2158
01:25:39,430 --> 01:25:37,040
anomaly well i've had uh we're up

2159
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:39,440
against uh well we've got five minutes

2160
01:25:43,189 --> 01:25:41,440
and so i'm gonna tell this one story now

2161
01:25:45,910 --> 01:25:43,199
i don't tell it often

2162
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:45,920
and the reason why i've only told it

2163
01:25:50,470 --> 01:25:48,080
maybe five ten times in my life and the

2164
01:25:52,950 --> 01:25:50,480
only reason why is because

2165
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:52,960
it's fantastic it's fantastic and i

2166
01:25:57,830 --> 01:25:55,600
don't want people to think

2167
01:26:00,070 --> 01:25:57,840
anything crazy about me because i'm a

2168
01:26:02,709 --> 01:26:00,080
black and white logical guy i'm

2169
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:02,719
open-minded but i just

2170
01:26:07,350 --> 01:26:05,760
that's the way i run uh run my life but

2171
01:26:10,229 --> 01:26:07,360
this is this is the story and i'll give

2172
01:26:11,189 --> 01:26:10,239
you the very very abridged version

2173
01:26:12,790 --> 01:26:11,199
um

2174
01:26:14,390 --> 01:26:12,800
this was here in southern california and

2175
01:26:16,149 --> 01:26:14,400
i was pulling up to a friend's house

2176
01:26:19,750 --> 01:26:16,159
where i was meeting

2177
01:26:20,790 --> 01:26:19,760
uh a couple of people um after

2178
01:26:27,910 --> 01:26:20,800
a

2179
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:27,920
o'clock in the morning

2180
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:28,880
they are

2181
01:26:32,070 --> 01:26:30,000
leaving the restaurant they're in

2182
01:26:34,310 --> 01:26:32,080
another car i'm in my car we're going to

2183
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:34,320
meet at their place

2184
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:37,199
in in about a half hour uh driving from

2185
01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:38,960
the valley to hollywood i get to the

2186
01:26:42,870 --> 01:26:40,480
house first

2187
01:26:45,830 --> 01:26:42,880
and i pull through the driveway i pull

2188
01:26:48,470 --> 01:26:45,840
up to the to the house and it's it's a

2189
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:48,480
nice little white house with a big front

2190
01:26:53,350 --> 01:26:51,120
porch with a big picture window

2191
01:26:54,870 --> 01:26:53,360
in the in the front and

2192
01:26:56,870 --> 01:26:54,880
and it's it's about two o'clock in the

2193
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:56,880
morning full moon

2194
01:27:01,830 --> 01:27:00,000
and i pull up and and there's no cars in

2195
01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:01,840
the driveway so i know that i'm first so

2196
01:27:05,669 --> 01:27:04,560
i'm just sitting in my car and i look

2197
01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:05,679
over

2198
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:08,400
at the front porch which is about maybe

2199
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:12,239
20 25 feet to my left

2200
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:14,880
and i look and i see

2201
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:18,400
the curtain pull open it's right in

2202
01:27:23,350 --> 01:27:19,600
front of me

2203
01:27:25,830 --> 01:27:23,360
and a face looks out at my car and i

2204
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:25,840
thought oh somebody's here oh okay and

2205
01:27:29,830 --> 01:27:27,120
that happened after about five minutes

2206
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:29,840
so i get out of my car and i go up to

2207
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:31,679
the front porch and i'm waiting for the

2208
01:27:35,830 --> 01:27:33,600
door to open you know because they know

2209
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:35,840
that i'm there they can hear me

2210
01:27:40,390 --> 01:27:37,280
there's nothing

2211
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:40,400
and i knock on the door i i can't look

2212
01:27:43,669 --> 01:27:41,920
through the window anymore because now

2213
01:27:45,270 --> 01:27:43,679
the curtains closed

2214
01:27:46,709 --> 01:27:45,280
and i thought man why are they playing

2215
01:27:48,070 --> 01:27:46,719
with you know i'm knocking on the door

2216
01:27:50,629 --> 01:27:48,080
knocking on the door knocking on the

2217
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:50,639
door i go back to my car

2218
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:52,880
after this this is like 10 minutes i'm

2219
01:27:57,110 --> 01:27:54,960
waiting on the front porch and and i

2220
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:57,120
don't know who it is but i i know that

2221
01:28:00,149 --> 01:27:58,560
somebody's there

2222
01:28:01,590 --> 01:28:00,159
but maybe they're getting dressed maybe

2223
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:01,600
they're doing something before they can

2224
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:03,840
come and open up i go back to my car

2225
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:06,239
frustrated i sit in the front seat and i

2226
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:08,400
just stare at that front window and it

2227
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:11,120
happens again about a half hour later

2228
01:28:16,310 --> 01:28:14,719
the the curtain moves about a foot

2229
01:28:18,790 --> 01:28:16,320
i go back

2230
01:28:20,310 --> 01:28:18,800
and i'm a little bit angry i don't get

2231
01:28:22,149 --> 01:28:20,320
an answer at the door

2232
01:28:25,510 --> 01:28:22,159
i go back and i wait in my car about a

2233
01:28:27,510 --> 01:28:25,520
half hour later the the people show up

2234
01:28:29,030 --> 01:28:27,520
my friends they get out of the car and

2235
01:28:30,790 --> 01:28:29,040
i'm like man

2236
01:28:32,470 --> 01:28:30,800
you know i forget the roommates names

2237
01:28:34,390 --> 01:28:32,480
she's in there but she's not answering

2238
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:34,400
the door no she's not

2239
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:36,960
she's behind us and then her car pulls

2240
01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:37,679
up

2241
01:28:41,430 --> 01:28:39,760
now all three cars are there and i tell

2242
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:41,440
everybody what's going we go we unlock

2243
01:28:49,110 --> 01:28:45,520
the house go in dark empty nobody there

2244
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:49,120
and i'm just saying i saw what i was so

2245
01:28:54,310 --> 01:28:51,520
angry and then i was really scratching

2246
01:28:55,750 --> 01:28:54,320
my head and all i can say is

2247
01:28:58,790 --> 01:28:55,760
i know what i saw

2248
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:58,800
i know what i experienced but i've got

2249
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:00,480
no proof

2250
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:03,280
there's nothing i could do or say to

2251
01:29:07,189 --> 01:29:05,040
convince anybody

2252
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:07,199
and and i was almost feeling a little

2253
01:29:11,590 --> 01:29:09,120
bit foolish and then i started to think

2254
01:29:13,910 --> 01:29:11,600
could i have imagined it twice the same

2255
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:13,920
experience but that's that's that's what

2256
01:29:16,390 --> 01:29:15,120
happened to me

2257
01:29:20,550 --> 01:29:16,400
and and

2258
01:29:23,270 --> 01:29:20,560
again you know experience anomaly

2259
01:29:25,270 --> 01:29:23,280
as with my experience it

2260
01:29:27,110 --> 01:29:25,280
exists in memory and testimony and

2261
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:27,120
nowhere else

2262
01:29:31,270 --> 01:29:29,120
but you know it happened to you but you

2263
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:31,280
can't do anything with it it's very

2264
01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:33,040
frustrating and like i said i keep my

2265
01:29:37,270 --> 01:29:35,199
cards close to my chest now i just don't

2266
01:29:39,910 --> 01:29:37,280
want people to look at me like you know

2267
01:29:41,590 --> 01:29:39,920
and but i can only say that uh what

2268
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:41,600
happened to me happened let's take a

2269
01:29:46,149 --> 01:29:43,520
break can i can i get 15 more minutes

2270
01:29:48,629 --> 01:29:46,159
from you sure okay just stay with us

2271
01:29:50,149 --> 01:29:48,639
let's take take a quick two minutes

2272
01:29:53,189 --> 01:29:50,159
and we'll be back right after this this

2273
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:53,199
is kjcr we are with jerome clark

2274
01:29:57,270 --> 01:29:55,360
telling some stories this is this is a

2275
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:57,280
wonderful time

2276
01:30:00,470 --> 01:29:59,280
fade to black dark matter radio network

2277
01:30:13,510 --> 01:30:00,480
we'll be back right after this don't

2278
01:30:18,550 --> 01:30:15,910
way out here we listen to jimmy church

2279
01:30:23,830 --> 01:30:18,560
on the dark matter radio network

2280
01:30:40,550 --> 01:30:26,390
you're listening to fade to black on the

2281
01:30:45,910 --> 01:30:42,950
you're listening to jimmy church this is

2282
01:30:50,310 --> 01:30:45,920
revolution the revolution will not be

2283
01:31:29,910 --> 01:30:50,320
televised the revolution is on radio

2284
01:31:36,550 --> 01:31:33,030
all right everybody welcome back

2285
01:31:42,830 --> 01:31:36,560
kjcr jimmychurchradio.com

2286
01:31:45,790 --> 01:31:44,550
darkmatterradionnetwork.net all right

2287
01:31:47,350 --> 01:31:45,800
shoot me an email to jimmy

2288
01:31:49,750 --> 01:31:47,360
jimmychurchradio.com follow us on

2289
01:31:52,470 --> 01:31:49,760
twitter at jchurchradio

2290
01:31:54,229 --> 01:31:52,480
youtube everything's got jimmy church

2291
01:31:56,830 --> 01:31:54,239
fade to black something is in it you can

2292
01:31:59,750 --> 01:31:56,840
find it go like subscribe

2293
01:32:01,430 --> 01:31:59,760
friend do it all okay i appreciate

2294
01:32:03,510 --> 01:32:01,440
everybody coming in tonight very special

2295
01:32:06,550 --> 01:32:03,520
show tonight with jerome clark

2296
01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:06,560
and uh now jerome are you with us by the

2297
01:32:09,430 --> 01:32:08,400
way yep okay good

2298
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:09,440
uh

2299
01:32:16,310 --> 01:32:14,880
us another segment here but i i can't

2300
01:32:18,629 --> 01:32:16,320
let you get away

2301
01:32:21,270 --> 01:32:18,639
with um uh

2302
01:32:22,390 --> 01:32:21,280
i have an opportunity here to ask

2303
01:32:24,229 --> 01:32:22,400
you some

2304
01:32:27,270 --> 01:32:24,239
some things that i just need to i just

2305
01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:27,280
need to ask out of everything and you've

2306
01:32:32,870 --> 01:32:30,560
documented every single

2307
01:32:35,189 --> 01:32:32,880
well going through the early 90s

2308
01:32:37,910 --> 01:32:35,199
um ufo cases

2309
01:32:40,870 --> 01:32:37,920
there there obviously are a couple that

2310
01:32:42,790 --> 01:32:40,880
stand out for you uh in a black and

2311
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:42,800
white sense um

2312
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:43,920
and

2313
01:32:47,110 --> 01:32:45,360
for you uh

2314
01:32:49,590 --> 01:32:47,120
give me one or two of the cases you know

2315
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:49,600
leaving roswell aside and

2316
01:32:53,110 --> 01:32:50,560
and

2317
01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:53,120
roswell's really a strong yeah

2318
01:32:58,709 --> 01:32:56,719
exactly so leaving that but for you um

2319
01:32:59,910 --> 01:32:58,719
surprise me with something teach me

2320
01:33:02,149 --> 01:32:59,920
something

2321
01:33:04,870 --> 01:33:02,159
oh i don't know that i have anything

2322
01:33:05,910 --> 01:33:04,880
brilliant to say i mean it all depends

2323
01:33:09,830 --> 01:33:05,920
on

2324
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:09,840
interesting ufo case there i think that

2325
01:33:13,990 --> 01:33:12,480
the high strangeness cases

2326
01:33:16,629 --> 01:33:14,000
are always

2327
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:16,639
you know extraordinarily intriguing

2328
01:33:24,870 --> 01:33:17,840
and

2329
01:33:27,189 --> 01:33:24,880
they don't go anywhere

2330
01:33:29,830 --> 01:33:27,199
in the end they're just stories even you

2331
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:29,840
know when told by sincere people because

2332
01:33:32,550 --> 01:33:30,960
they're just

2333
01:33:36,629 --> 01:33:32,560
they're they're in memory and testimony

2334
01:33:38,470 --> 01:33:36,639
nowhere else the the the hardcore cases

2335
01:33:39,510 --> 01:33:38,480
as i said before that where if you're

2336
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:39,520
going to make a case for

2337
01:33:44,629 --> 01:33:41,600
extraterrestrial visitation this is

2338
01:33:46,310 --> 01:33:44,639
where you go and this is actually where

2339
01:33:49,189 --> 01:33:46,320
the ufo

2340
01:33:51,910 --> 01:33:49,199
controversy will be solved

2341
01:33:55,510 --> 01:33:51,920
it's the cases that science can deal

2342
01:33:56,709 --> 01:33:55,520
with like the rb-47 case which is a case

2343
01:34:00,629 --> 01:33:56,719
of

2344
01:34:01,830 --> 01:34:00,639
you know an rb-47 aircraft over a period

2345
01:34:05,510 --> 01:34:01,840
of several

2346
01:34:08,470 --> 01:34:05,520
hours over several states in the south

2347
01:34:13,590 --> 01:34:11,910
a ufo with the state of the art

2348
01:34:15,590 --> 01:34:13,600
you know electro

2349
01:34:22,709 --> 01:34:15,600
ecm electro

2350
01:34:26,950 --> 01:34:24,709
and also while the ufo was being

2351
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:26,960
observed visually and also tracked by at

2352
01:34:33,110 --> 01:34:29,760
least two radar screens

2353
01:34:36,550 --> 01:34:33,120
on the ground now this is a case that

2354
01:34:37,750 --> 01:34:36,560
that is it's a complex case

2355
01:34:40,070 --> 01:34:37,760
with

2356
01:34:42,390 --> 01:34:40,080
many technical details which i could not

2357
01:34:45,430 --> 01:34:42,400
recite off the top of my head

2358
01:34:48,149 --> 01:34:45,440
but which comprises 40 pages

2359
01:34:50,629 --> 01:34:48,159
of the second edition of the ufo

2360
01:34:52,070 --> 01:34:50,639
encyclopedia this case was extensively

2361
01:34:54,870 --> 01:34:52,080
investigated

2362
01:34:57,189 --> 01:34:54,880
by first by project blue book

2363
01:35:01,430 --> 01:34:57,199
and later by the

2364
01:35:03,350 --> 01:35:01,440
atmospheric physicist james mcdonald and

2365
01:35:05,350 --> 01:35:03,360
in later years

2366
01:35:06,390 --> 01:35:05,360
and then also by the condon committee

2367
01:35:09,189 --> 01:35:06,400
which

2368
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:09,199
was formed in the late 1960s at the

2369
01:35:13,030 --> 01:35:10,560
university of

2370
01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:13,040
colorado in contract with project blue

2371
01:35:17,109 --> 01:35:15,280
book

2372
01:35:18,390 --> 01:35:17,119
the con committee investigated this case

2373
01:35:21,270 --> 01:35:18,400
and then the later years was

2374
01:35:23,910 --> 01:35:21,280
reinvestigated by an aerospace engineer

2375
01:35:27,510 --> 01:35:23,920
named brad sparks and sparks wrote a

2376
01:35:29,669 --> 01:35:27,520
40-page entry in my ufo encyclopedia

2377
01:35:32,229 --> 01:35:29,679
that goes into this case which he spent

2378
01:35:34,390 --> 01:35:32,239
years investigating and documenting

2379
01:35:37,189 --> 01:35:34,400
and brad who's not

2380
01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:37,199
prone to overstatement says that this is

2381
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:40,639
the one case that proves these ufos

2382
01:35:47,270 --> 01:35:44,400
as you know some something technological

2383
01:35:49,510 --> 01:35:47,280
and somebody else's technology now the

2384
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:49,520
most impressive cases are not the most

2385
01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:50,880
colorful

2386
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:53,280
they're often quite technical

2387
01:35:58,070 --> 01:35:56,480
such as uh well for example the the

2388
01:36:00,470 --> 01:35:58,080
plants the

2389
01:36:02,870 --> 01:36:00,480
transon provence

2390
01:36:04,709 --> 01:36:02,880
ce2 closing current second kind which

2391
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:04,719
happened in france

2392
01:36:10,310 --> 01:36:07,360
some years ago in 1981

2393
01:36:12,790 --> 01:36:10,320
that where the french police took

2394
01:36:14,149 --> 01:36:12,800
samples from a ufo landing site and got

2395
01:36:15,910 --> 01:36:14,159
them to

2396
01:36:17,990 --> 01:36:15,920
you know a government laboratory and

2397
01:36:21,030 --> 01:36:18,000
they were studied in the laboratory and

2398
01:36:22,870 --> 01:36:21,040
found it to be very interesting

2399
01:36:24,950 --> 01:36:22,880
and and

2400
01:36:26,870 --> 01:36:24,960
explainable only by the interaction of

2401
01:36:29,030 --> 01:36:26,880
the environment and some

2402
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:29,040
somebody else's technology these are the

2403
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:30,320
cases that

2404
01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:32,960
you know that to me

2405
01:36:36,870 --> 01:36:34,480
and i think that

2406
01:36:39,910 --> 01:36:36,880
probably to most open-minded observers

2407
01:36:42,470 --> 01:36:39,920
would say comprise the hard evidence and

2408
01:36:44,950 --> 01:36:42,480
the hard evidence suggests that somebody

2409
01:36:47,270 --> 01:36:44,960
else's technology is here in our

2410
01:36:50,149 --> 01:36:47,280
atmosphere and occasionally leaving

2411
01:36:50,950 --> 01:36:50,159
physical evidence of its presence

2412
01:36:54,229 --> 01:36:50,960
well

2413
01:36:56,149 --> 01:36:54,239
for me i uh i've got a list of things

2414
01:36:57,910 --> 01:36:56,159
that i'm slowly checking off here and

2415
01:36:59,030 --> 01:36:57,920
doing this show and

2416
01:37:03,750 --> 01:36:59,040
and

2417
01:37:07,030 --> 01:37:03,760
exactly right is um

2418
01:37:09,350 --> 01:37:07,040
is bob salas's uh experience with

2419
01:37:12,470 --> 01:37:09,360
malmstrom air force base

2420
01:37:13,430 --> 01:37:12,480
and um i'm assuming i don't know this is

2421
01:37:16,470 --> 01:37:13,440
i can't

2422
01:37:18,950 --> 01:37:16,480
exactly uh recall but did you

2423
01:37:22,229 --> 01:37:18,960
did that get included in

2424
01:37:24,550 --> 01:37:22,239
in uh the encyclopedia of the ufo book

2425
01:37:26,149 --> 01:37:24,560
no i didn't know i didn't really know

2426
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:26,159
about at the time i would have written

2427
01:37:31,030 --> 01:37:28,320
about if i if i'd known about it but i

2428
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:31,040
think it came to light later okay

2429
01:37:35,510 --> 01:37:34,639
that's so i i interviewed bob

2430
01:37:37,750 --> 01:37:35,520
uh

2431
01:37:39,830 --> 01:37:37,760
last month and

2432
01:37:40,790 --> 01:37:39,840
uh it's a case where

2433
01:37:42,550 --> 01:37:40,800
and

2434
01:37:44,390 --> 01:37:42,560
you talked about this earlier but it's

2435
01:37:47,109 --> 01:37:44,400
the truth is always in the details you

2436
01:37:48,790 --> 01:37:47,119
know it's it's in the details

2437
01:37:50,390 --> 01:37:48,800
you know if you're going to do like you

2438
01:37:52,550 --> 01:37:50,400
were saying with channeling and you're

2439
01:37:55,030 --> 01:37:52,560
going to channel and everything seems to

2440
01:37:57,189 --> 01:37:55,040
be in broad terms and

2441
01:38:01,109 --> 01:37:57,199
you know nothing definitive but

2442
01:38:04,310 --> 01:38:01,119
in in a case like with uh captain salas

2443
01:38:06,390 --> 01:38:04,320
that it's it's a black and white obvious

2444
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:06,400
thing where there are

2445
01:38:11,430 --> 01:38:08,880
uh documents there and that's that and

2446
01:38:12,709 --> 01:38:11,440
then moving on to like uh travis walton

2447
01:38:16,310 --> 01:38:12,719
who uh

2448
01:38:18,149 --> 01:38:16,320
who i interviewed last week again uh

2449
01:38:20,470 --> 01:38:18,159
witnesses and

2450
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:20,480
and and the police and the detective you

2451
01:38:24,070 --> 01:38:22,080
know there's things involved in this

2452
01:38:25,990 --> 01:38:24,080
case other than

2453
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:26,000
an experience anomaly

2454
01:38:29,270 --> 01:38:27,119
right and

2455
01:38:31,830 --> 01:38:29,280
you know and i just stopped it with with

2456
01:38:33,590 --> 01:38:31,840
cases like that and i've

2457
01:38:35,590 --> 01:38:33,600
those are the people that i need to have

2458
01:38:36,709 --> 01:38:35,600
on the show to answer questions for me

2459
01:38:39,030 --> 01:38:36,719
because

2460
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:39,040
an experienced anomaly is one thing that

2461
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:42,000
is and it it is uh

2462
01:38:49,109 --> 01:38:45,360
we had stan romanek on last week

2463
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:49,119
and uh you know uh an extreme case of

2464
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:50,880
experience anomaly

2465
01:38:54,950 --> 01:38:51,840
um

2466
01:38:56,629 --> 01:38:54,960
but uh it's those cases for me

2467
01:38:59,430 --> 01:38:56,639
that uh where you've got the black and

2468
01:39:02,950 --> 01:38:59,440
white stuff that backs up the case yeah

2469
01:39:05,270 --> 01:39:02,960
these are the event anomalies yes

2470
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:05,280
these happened in this

2471
01:39:10,629 --> 01:39:08,880
world outside somebody's head or outside

2472
01:39:13,030 --> 01:39:10,639
some kind of fuzzy realm that's not

2473
01:39:15,350 --> 01:39:13,040
quite real not quite unreal now these

2474
01:39:18,149 --> 01:39:15,360
happened in the sense that we ordinarily

2475
01:39:19,430 --> 01:39:18,159
use the verb happened

2476
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:19,440
with um

2477
01:39:23,910 --> 01:39:22,320
uh and again we're we're up against uh i

2478
01:39:26,870 --> 01:39:23,920
i just want to get as much in with you

2479
01:39:30,790 --> 01:39:26,880
before you have to depart

2480
01:39:32,629 --> 01:39:30,800
what's uh give me one case uh

2481
01:39:35,910 --> 01:39:32,639
uh where

2482
01:39:37,430 --> 01:39:35,920
um i understand the rb49 but um and we

2483
01:39:40,229 --> 01:39:37,440
just touched upon that but what's the

2484
01:39:42,070 --> 01:39:40,239
one thing where you would if you were

2485
01:39:44,390 --> 01:39:42,080
trying to convince

2486
01:39:46,310 --> 01:39:44,400
somebody a friend of yours a family

2487
01:39:49,189 --> 01:39:46,320
member where you just had to stomp your

2488
01:39:50,390 --> 01:39:49,199
hand down on the table and go no no this

2489
01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:50,400
okay but

2490
01:39:54,229 --> 01:39:51,760
check this out

2491
01:39:56,310 --> 01:39:54,239
what's the one case that that uh

2492
01:39:58,070 --> 01:39:56,320
you feel strongest about

2493
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:58,080
well i think that

2494
01:40:01,990 --> 01:39:58,960
that

2495
01:40:06,550 --> 01:40:02,000
again it's rb47 case there the coin

2496
01:40:08,229 --> 01:40:06,560
helicopter case from october 1973

2497
01:40:11,030 --> 01:40:08,239
you know where you have an extraordinary

2498
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:11,040
interaction of a helicopter crew and a

2499
01:40:14,950 --> 01:40:12,960
ufo that causes

2500
01:40:18,790 --> 01:40:14,960
you know the the uh

2501
01:40:21,669 --> 01:40:18,800
crafty the helicopter to descend like

2502
01:40:24,229 --> 01:40:21,679
1200 feet this is witnessed by

2503
01:40:25,750 --> 01:40:24,239
separate independent witnesses on the

2504
01:40:26,870 --> 01:40:25,760
ground

2505
01:40:29,510 --> 01:40:26,880
and

2506
01:40:32,470 --> 01:40:29,520
you know it's cases like that that just

2507
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,480
you know just are uncrackable of course

2508
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:34,080
you know people try to crack them and

2509
01:40:38,470 --> 01:40:36,320
that's the inevitable part of the whole

2510
01:40:41,669 --> 01:40:38,480
kind of dynamic but

2511
01:40:43,350 --> 01:40:41,679
nobody's ever come up with a persuasive

2512
01:40:45,430 --> 01:40:43,360
counter explanation

2513
01:40:47,430 --> 01:40:45,440
than that there was some kind of

2514
01:40:49,590 --> 01:40:47,440
extraordinary interaction

2515
01:40:52,310 --> 01:40:49,600
between witnesses

2516
01:40:54,470 --> 01:40:52,320
and earthly technology and somebody

2517
01:40:56,470 --> 01:40:54,480
else's technology

2518
01:40:59,270 --> 01:40:56,480
what do you think it's going to

2519
01:41:01,430 --> 01:40:59,280
what is it going to take

2520
01:41:03,669 --> 01:41:01,440
for

2521
01:41:04,790 --> 01:41:03,679
disclosure tomorrow night i have stephen

2522
01:41:07,109 --> 01:41:04,800
bassett on

2523
01:41:09,030 --> 01:41:07,119
and uh somebody i respect a lot and he's

2524
01:41:10,709 --> 01:41:09,040
a courageous guy and sometimes i think

2525
01:41:13,590 --> 01:41:10,719
he's out there all alone we need more

2526
01:41:16,149 --> 01:41:13,600
people like stephen to face up to the

2527
01:41:17,990 --> 01:41:16,159
the big bear that is our government but

2528
01:41:20,390 --> 01:41:18,000
uh what do you think it's going to take

2529
01:41:22,470 --> 01:41:20,400
what what is the event that's going to

2530
01:41:24,149 --> 01:41:22,480
have they always talk about the the you

2531
01:41:25,109 --> 01:41:24,159
know the flying saucer the white house

2532
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:25,119
lawn

2533
01:41:28,629 --> 01:41:26,239
you know

2534
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:28,639
but short of that what is it that it's

2535
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:30,960
going to take you have presented and

2536
01:41:35,510 --> 01:41:33,199
published so much

2537
01:41:37,750 --> 01:41:35,520
and even that is not enough

2538
01:41:39,270 --> 01:41:37,760
what is it uh what do you think is is

2539
01:41:41,430 --> 01:41:39,280
going to push

2540
01:41:43,669 --> 01:41:41,440
the government over the edge for any

2541
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:43,679
type of disclosure well i don't know the

2542
01:41:47,669 --> 01:41:46,239
government has anything to disclose but

2543
01:41:50,149 --> 01:41:47,679
in terms of

2544
01:41:52,310 --> 01:41:50,159
just solving this thing and science pays

2545
01:41:55,109 --> 01:41:52,320
attention to it and resolves the issues

2546
01:41:57,910 --> 01:41:55,119
and science can solve this

2547
01:42:01,189 --> 01:41:59,510
i'm trying to compress this into a very

2548
01:42:03,109 --> 01:42:01,199
simple thing because this is something i

2549
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:03,119
thought a lot about but i think it's

2550
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:05,040
going to happen the next generation or

2551
01:42:09,990 --> 01:42:07,360
two it's going to happen as we hear we

2552
01:42:11,030 --> 01:42:10,000
discover more and more old extra solar

2553
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:11,040
planets

2554
01:42:15,229 --> 01:42:12,800
as it becomes clear that earth-like

2555
01:42:18,629 --> 01:42:15,239
planets are

2556
01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:18,639
staggeringly abundant in our galaxy

2557
01:42:23,990 --> 01:42:21,040
hundreds of millions and more

2558
01:42:26,070 --> 01:42:24,000
earth-like planets if that's true the

2559
01:42:29,109 --> 01:42:26,080
galaxy is almost certainly teeming with

2560
01:42:32,149 --> 01:42:29,119
intelligent civilizations it beggars

2561
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:32,159
belief that if that's true

2562
01:42:35,270 --> 01:42:32,960
that

2563
01:42:37,430 --> 01:42:35,280
we're not going to see direct evidence

2564
01:42:39,590 --> 01:42:37,440
of that in our space because some of

2565
01:42:42,390 --> 01:42:39,600
these civilizations will be traveling

2566
01:42:45,430 --> 01:42:42,400
through the galaxy either you know with

2567
01:42:47,669 --> 01:42:45,440
manned vehicles or robot vehicles we're

2568
01:42:49,270 --> 01:42:47,679
going to see evidence because they will

2569
01:42:51,109 --> 01:42:49,280
be able to know through their

2570
01:42:53,109 --> 01:42:51,119
instruments that the earth

2571
01:42:54,830 --> 01:42:53,119
harbors life

2572
01:42:57,590 --> 01:42:54,840
you know through this

2573
01:42:59,669 --> 01:42:57,600
spectroscopic analysis will show them

2574
01:43:02,709 --> 01:42:59,679
that there are all the elements of

2575
01:43:04,870 --> 01:43:02,719
biology and life on earth and so they

2576
01:43:06,470 --> 01:43:04,880
wouldn't discover us accidentally they

2577
01:43:07,510 --> 01:43:06,480
would come here because they knew we

2578
01:43:10,709 --> 01:43:07,520
were here

2579
01:43:13,669 --> 01:43:10,719
that is this subject actually of growing

2580
01:43:17,109 --> 01:43:13,679
quiet speculation among astronomers who

2581
01:43:19,990 --> 01:43:17,119
are thinking about extraterrestrial life

2582
01:43:22,550 --> 01:43:20,000
well we're certainly doing that exact

2583
01:43:24,470 --> 01:43:22,560
that's exactly what we're doing now

2584
01:43:27,910 --> 01:43:24,480
right you know also the

2585
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:27,920
complete failure of the seti program

2586
01:43:32,390 --> 01:43:30,880
which began in the late 1950s has gotten

2587
01:43:33,830 --> 01:43:32,400
nowhere

2588
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:33,840
and the cl

2589
01:43:39,590 --> 01:43:36,960
the obvious realization that this

2590
01:43:41,910 --> 01:43:39,600
scientists who insist that there's

2591
01:43:43,750 --> 01:43:41,920
abundant life in the galaxy are going to

2592
01:43:45,669 --> 01:43:43,760
have to prove it they're not going to be

2593
01:43:46,950 --> 01:43:45,679
able to prove it through city and

2594
01:43:48,709 --> 01:43:46,960
they're going to have to look around

2595
01:43:50,390 --> 01:43:48,719
elsewhere and if some of them will

2596
01:43:52,310 --> 01:43:50,400
privately admit

2597
01:43:55,109 --> 01:43:52,320
it may be time to look at the most

2598
01:43:58,550 --> 01:43:55,119
puzzling ufo reports for that evidence

2599
01:44:00,390 --> 01:43:58,560
with with seti this this is where i'm

2600
01:44:01,910 --> 01:44:00,400
i'm i'm a little bit

2601
01:44:04,070 --> 01:44:01,920
divided

2602
01:44:08,470 --> 01:44:04,080
if we don't

2603
01:44:10,629 --> 01:44:08,480
good

2604
01:44:12,870 --> 01:44:10,639
you know if we

2605
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:12,880
because then we know absolutely nothing

2606
01:44:18,709 --> 01:44:15,920
although seti hasn't been able to uh

2607
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:18,719
provide us with anything um

2608
01:44:23,350 --> 01:44:20,560
but if we don't do it do you think

2609
01:44:24,470 --> 01:44:23,360
that's right too as well i think we need

2610
01:44:28,629 --> 01:44:24,480
to

2611
01:44:32,470 --> 01:44:28,639
you

2612
01:44:34,310 --> 01:44:32,480
there's a there's a book that came out

2613
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:34,320
recently that i recommend to anybody

2614
01:44:38,629 --> 01:44:36,560
who's wrestling with these questions

2615
01:44:40,950 --> 01:44:38,639
it's by a british science journalist

2616
01:44:42,550 --> 01:44:40,960
named edward ashbal who's a perfectly

2617
01:44:45,270 --> 01:44:42,560
respectable guy

2618
01:44:48,070 --> 01:44:45,280
not a ufologist not a weirdo

2619
01:44:49,669 --> 01:44:48,080
who writes that yes said in his book

2620
01:44:53,510 --> 01:44:49,679
signatures of life

2621
01:44:55,270 --> 01:44:53,520
that yes seti has failed and there's and

2622
01:44:58,709 --> 01:44:55,280
it was probably fundamentally

2623
01:45:01,510 --> 01:44:58,719
misconceived but what it did was force

2624
01:45:03,189 --> 01:45:01,520
us to think about extraterrestrial life

2625
01:45:05,430 --> 01:45:03,199
what the evidence for it is what it

2626
01:45:08,950 --> 01:45:05,440
might be like and it generates an

2627
01:45:11,270 --> 01:45:08,960
enormous amount of interesting

2628
01:45:14,229 --> 01:45:11,280
writing intelligent writing about the

2629
01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:14,239
nature of potential extraterrestrial

2630
01:45:19,510 --> 01:45:17,440
civilizations and asheville points out

2631
01:45:21,510 --> 01:45:19,520
that by the but if you study all the

2632
01:45:24,149 --> 01:45:21,520
implications

2633
01:45:26,149 --> 01:45:24,159
that came out of the seti concept

2634
01:45:29,030 --> 01:45:26,159
all the ideas that astronomers have

2635
01:45:31,669 --> 01:45:29,040
kicked around about

2636
01:45:35,270 --> 01:45:31,679
hypothetical ets

2637
01:45:36,629 --> 01:45:35,280
it all comes down to

2638
01:45:38,629 --> 01:45:36,639
exactly what

2639
01:45:40,470 --> 01:45:38,639
the ufo phenomenon that people are

2640
01:45:43,030 --> 01:45:40,480
reporting is

2641
01:45:45,669 --> 01:45:43,040
but what do you consider a

2642
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:45,679
failure with seti what what no no

2643
01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:48,400
nobody's responding and probably nobody

2644
01:45:51,910 --> 01:45:50,080
could respond because the whole thing

2645
01:45:52,790 --> 01:45:51,920
was just misconceived

2646
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:52,800
that

2647
01:46:00,629 --> 01:45:58,000
civilizations out there doing what we're

2648
01:46:01,669 --> 01:46:00,639
doing and sending you know radio beams

2649
01:46:03,750 --> 01:46:01,679
out there

2650
01:46:05,430 --> 01:46:03,760
and also of course radio beams are

2651
01:46:06,950 --> 01:46:05,440
traveling at the speed of light it's an

2652
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:06,960
enormously

2653
01:46:10,070 --> 01:46:08,719
complicated and hopeless way of

2654
01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:10,080
communicating

2655
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:14,639
but he says that seti posited that the

2656
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:17,280
galaxy is is populated probably densely

2657
01:46:20,470 --> 01:46:18,560
populated

2658
01:46:21,750 --> 01:46:20,480
that there are intelligent civilizations

2659
01:46:23,910 --> 01:46:21,760
out there that are

2660
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:23,920
older sometimes by millions of years

2661
01:46:29,030 --> 01:46:26,480
than ours that that

2662
01:46:31,109 --> 01:46:29,040
are out there and anyway he just

2663
01:46:33,590 --> 01:46:31,119
develops this really

2664
01:46:35,910 --> 01:46:33,600
impressive argument showing how

2665
01:46:37,990 --> 01:46:35,920
speculation that came out of seti work

2666
01:46:42,229 --> 01:46:38,000
applies to

2667
01:46:44,950 --> 01:46:42,239
observational data about ufo sightings

2668
01:46:46,790 --> 01:46:44,960
well ufos appear to be acting in a way

2669
01:46:47,750 --> 01:46:46,800
that we would think extraterrestrials

2670
01:46:49,109 --> 01:46:47,760
would

2671
01:46:51,830 --> 01:46:49,119
if we

2672
01:46:53,350 --> 01:46:51,840
yeah and and my argument is this

2673
01:46:54,390 --> 01:46:53,360
and it's not really an argument it's

2674
01:46:57,830 --> 01:46:54,400
just but

2675
01:47:00,470 --> 01:46:57,840
if if we didn't do it if we didn't try

2676
01:47:03,510 --> 01:47:00,480
then certainly that then we we don't

2677
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:03,520
have any i'd rather try and come up

2678
01:47:07,030 --> 01:47:04,800
empty

2679
01:47:09,030 --> 01:47:07,040
than have the question

2680
01:47:10,229 --> 01:47:09,040
out there that we you know what you know

2681
01:47:13,430 --> 01:47:10,239
we should have been trying this whole

2682
01:47:16,149 --> 01:47:13,440
time how do we not how do we not try and

2683
01:47:17,669 --> 01:47:16,159
that's just my view but well no i think

2684
01:47:19,350 --> 01:47:17,679
that's a reasonable thing to say and i

2685
01:47:21,590 --> 01:47:19,360
don't particularly disagree with you

2686
01:47:23,109 --> 01:47:21,600
about that i just wish that some money

2687
01:47:26,070 --> 01:47:23,119
had been spent

2688
01:47:28,870 --> 01:47:26,080
doing scientific research on ufo reports

2689
01:47:31,590 --> 01:47:28,880
yeah that's well that that's an obvio i

2690
01:47:32,470 --> 01:47:31,600
still to this day i thought this is

2691
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:32,480
where

2692
01:47:37,030 --> 01:47:34,719
when i was a kid now you've got just a

2693
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:37,040
couple of years on me okay but let's go

2694
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:38,400
back to

2695
01:47:43,430 --> 01:47:39,920
1969

2696
01:47:45,750 --> 01:47:43,440
you know 1970-ish and i'm

2697
01:47:48,310 --> 01:47:45,760
reading and and i find out about

2698
01:47:49,590 --> 01:47:48,320
heineken project blue book and i'm all

2699
01:47:51,350 --> 01:47:49,600
excited

2700
01:47:53,030 --> 01:47:51,360
and uh

2701
01:47:54,550 --> 01:47:53,040
there were tv shows that were coming out

2702
01:47:57,109 --> 01:47:54,560
at that time it was just a it was a

2703
01:47:59,030 --> 01:47:57,119
great time that you know apollo and it

2704
01:48:01,669 --> 01:47:59,040
was just a great time to

2705
01:48:03,109 --> 01:48:01,679
to to learn about space every kid wanted

2706
01:48:04,629 --> 01:48:03,119
to be an astronaut if you know what i

2707
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:04,639
mean so

2708
01:48:09,750 --> 01:48:07,760
and i feel like looking back now that

2709
01:48:12,470 --> 01:48:09,760
project blue book it was i

2710
01:48:14,470 --> 01:48:12,480
i was completely lied to as a kid

2711
01:48:15,910 --> 01:48:14,480
i thought that there was all of this

2712
01:48:19,270 --> 01:48:15,920
scientific

2713
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:19,280
study going into this and i remember as

2714
01:48:23,669 --> 01:48:22,159
a kid reading about swamp gas as you

2715
01:48:26,149 --> 01:48:23,679
know and i i

2716
01:48:27,990 --> 01:48:26,159
i'm still waiting by the way jerry to

2717
01:48:30,550 --> 01:48:28,000
see my first swamp gas i don't know if

2718
01:48:33,030 --> 01:48:31,510
i don't know

2719
01:48:34,149 --> 01:48:33,040
particularly in march in the upper

2720
01:48:35,270 --> 01:48:34,159
midwest

2721
01:48:38,390 --> 01:48:35,280
but it doesn't

2722
01:48:42,870 --> 01:48:40,310
but that sighting that was attributed to

2723
01:48:45,510 --> 01:48:42,880
swamp gas occurred yeah or is it uh was

2724
01:48:46,470 --> 01:48:45,520
it in michigan i think in michigan yeah

2725
01:48:49,030 --> 01:48:46,480
yeah

2726
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:49,040
but anyway i i thought that there was

2727
01:48:55,109 --> 01:48:52,159
all of the scientific research going in

2728
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:55,119
to uh the ufo phenomena and it turns out

2729
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:56,159
there was

2730
01:49:00,229 --> 01:48:57,280
nothing

2731
01:49:03,189 --> 01:49:00,239
no no zero

2732
01:49:06,390 --> 01:49:03,199
i was friends with alan heineck who was

2733
01:49:08,070 --> 01:49:06,400
the scientific guy the astronomer with

2734
01:49:10,870 --> 01:49:08,080
project blue book for

2735
01:49:14,390 --> 01:49:10,880
most of project blue books history

2736
01:49:16,229 --> 01:49:14,400
and he always complained in his book the

2737
01:49:17,830 --> 01:49:16,239
ufo experience and also personally we

2738
01:49:19,910 --> 01:49:17,840
talk about all the time

2739
01:49:21,109 --> 01:49:19,920
about how the lack of

2740
01:49:24,390 --> 01:49:21,119
scientific

2741
01:49:27,910 --> 01:49:24,400
expertise applied to ufo reports and how

2742
01:49:30,629 --> 01:49:27,920
blue book was basically a joke

2743
01:49:33,589 --> 01:49:30,639
he's not around for me to speak to today

2744
01:49:35,350 --> 01:49:33,599
so but you were friends with him and i'm

2745
01:49:36,470 --> 01:49:35,360
i'm glad i can ask you this question did

2746
01:49:38,070 --> 01:49:36,480
he feel

2747
01:49:41,430 --> 01:49:38,080
did he express to you that his hands

2748
01:49:43,910 --> 01:49:41,440
were tied that he was being held back

2749
01:49:46,229 --> 01:49:43,920
he thought he thought that he was mostly

2750
01:49:48,229 --> 01:49:46,239
i mean allen was a very nice man a lot

2751
01:49:50,070 --> 01:49:48,239
of sense i don't want him i don't want

2752
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:50,080
him to sound like an arrogant jerk when

2753
01:49:54,629 --> 01:49:52,239
i say this because he wasn't okay

2754
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:54,639
but he felt that he was just surrounded

2755
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:55,760
by

2756
01:50:03,270 --> 01:49:57,920
let's put it kindly guys who weren't up

2757
01:50:07,109 --> 01:50:05,030
and he would shake his head when you

2758
01:50:08,870 --> 01:50:07,119
talk about some of these characters

2759
01:50:11,830 --> 01:50:08,880
who you know these

2760
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:11,840
air force officers who and and enlisted

2761
01:50:16,229 --> 01:50:13,679
men who were in blue book who really

2762
01:50:18,870 --> 01:50:16,239
didn't know much about anything and were

2763
01:50:22,149 --> 01:50:18,880
just basically time servers shuffling

2764
01:50:25,910 --> 01:50:22,159
paper right and did he

2765
01:50:28,229 --> 01:50:25,920
um did he was he a skeptic in the

2766
01:50:30,470 --> 01:50:28,239
beginning of project blue book yeah he

2767
01:50:32,709 --> 01:50:30,480
was he was the guy that called in when

2768
01:50:34,950 --> 01:50:32,719
they wanted to explain cases

2769
01:50:37,270 --> 01:50:34,960
from an astronomical point of view well

2770
01:50:40,070 --> 01:50:37,280
i understa i i don't mean to cut you off

2771
01:50:41,750 --> 01:50:40,080
i'm sorry no go ahead i i what i mean is

2772
01:50:43,589 --> 01:50:41,760
did he

2773
01:50:46,149 --> 01:50:43,599
uh

2774
01:50:48,149 --> 01:50:46,159
was he a skeptic skeptic though did he

2775
01:50:49,430 --> 01:50:48,159
not believe

2776
01:50:58,550 --> 01:50:49,440
uh

2777
01:51:01,750 --> 01:50:58,560
he was told

2778
01:51:03,510 --> 01:51:01,760
to say something but because i th

2779
01:51:05,589 --> 01:51:03,520
is it true that he eventually changed

2780
01:51:08,310 --> 01:51:05,599
his mind that's right yes he did change

2781
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:08,320
his mind in in a in a very public way in

2782
01:51:14,070 --> 01:51:12,000
the mid 1960s but

2783
01:51:16,470 --> 01:51:14,080
he was he started with the air force

2784
01:51:18,790 --> 01:51:16,480
project the original project was project

2785
01:51:21,430 --> 01:51:18,800
sign and then it became project garage

2786
01:51:23,669 --> 01:51:21,440
in the late 40s and he was assigned very

2787
01:51:26,470 --> 01:51:23,679
early on in the late 40s to be the

2788
01:51:29,109 --> 01:51:26,480
scientific consultant so he knew just

2789
01:51:31,669 --> 01:51:29,119
about all these guys who went through

2790
01:51:33,990 --> 01:51:31,679
the air force projects personally

2791
01:51:36,149 --> 01:51:34,000
and they didn't have to tell him to

2792
01:51:39,189 --> 01:51:36,159
explain the case that we just understood

2793
01:51:40,950 --> 01:51:39,199
that they that ufos were a nuisance

2794
01:51:42,550 --> 01:51:40,960
public interest was a nuisance and they

2795
01:51:44,629 --> 01:51:42,560
just wanted to discourage people from

2796
01:51:47,030 --> 01:51:44,639
bothering the air force about it so he

2797
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:47,040
didn't have to be told but also

2798
01:51:51,910 --> 01:51:49,760
the air well this is a complicated story

2799
01:51:53,109 --> 01:51:51,920
i can't just tell it in a minute

2800
01:51:56,470 --> 01:51:53,119
about what

2801
01:51:59,189 --> 01:51:56,480
allen heinek went through suffice to say

2802
01:52:00,310 --> 01:51:59,199
that he was periodically intrigued and

2803
01:52:02,950 --> 01:52:00,320
curious

2804
01:52:05,510 --> 01:52:02,960
but he was basically a skeptic

2805
01:52:07,669 --> 01:52:05,520
until he finally the force of evidence

2806
01:52:08,950 --> 01:52:07,679
and the pressure by some of his

2807
01:52:11,350 --> 01:52:08,960
colleagues who

2808
01:52:13,350 --> 01:52:11,360
really knew what was going on

2809
01:52:15,030 --> 01:52:13,360
forced him to go to

2810
01:52:16,550 --> 01:52:15,040
go public with

2811
01:52:19,030 --> 01:52:16,560
an acknowledgement that something was

2812
01:52:21,910 --> 01:52:19,040
going on and by that time he and blue

2813
01:52:24,070 --> 01:52:21,920
book were pretty much estranged right

2814
01:52:26,149 --> 01:52:24,080
did he ever confide anything in you that

2815
01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:26,159
you could tell me

2816
01:52:30,390 --> 01:52:28,400
publicly it's nobody's listening this is

2817
01:52:33,510 --> 01:52:30,400
just between you and i jerry no i can

2818
01:52:35,669 --> 01:52:33,520
tell you honestly that that that

2819
01:52:37,589 --> 01:52:35,679
allen wasn't you know allen actually had

2820
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:37,599
a high security clearance i mean he was

2821
01:52:42,070 --> 01:52:39,360
you know because he did other work for

2822
01:52:43,589 --> 01:52:42,080
the government besides ufos

2823
01:52:45,510 --> 01:52:43,599
and um

2824
01:52:48,070 --> 01:52:45,520
like many scientists of this generation

2825
01:52:50,709 --> 01:52:48,080
there was nothing special about that

2826
01:52:52,550 --> 01:52:50,719
but no i don't think that alan uh was in

2827
01:52:54,790 --> 01:52:52,560
on any secrets and

2828
01:52:57,030 --> 01:52:54,800
you know we often talked about you know

2829
01:52:58,870 --> 01:52:57,040
what the government did or didn't know

2830
01:53:01,510 --> 01:52:58,880
and he never really saw any evidence

2831
01:53:03,189 --> 01:53:01,520
that they were that the air force or the

2832
01:53:06,390 --> 01:53:03,199
cia whoever

2833
01:53:08,149 --> 01:53:06,400
you know had the answer and was was

2834
01:53:09,669 --> 01:53:08,159
was holding on to it he never saw any

2835
01:53:12,470 --> 01:53:09,679
evidence that he just saw evidence of

2836
01:53:14,870 --> 01:53:12,480
just complete incompetence right

2837
01:53:20,390 --> 01:53:14,880
right so there was no there was no

2838
01:53:24,830 --> 01:53:22,709
so there was no hidden meaning in his

2839
01:53:28,149 --> 01:53:24,840
appearance in uh close

2840
01:53:30,709 --> 01:53:28,159
encounters no you know

2841
01:53:32,550 --> 01:53:30,719
you know i hear conspiracy theories and

2842
01:53:36,709 --> 01:53:32,560
uh about alan and

2843
01:53:39,589 --> 01:53:36,719
i yeah they're just a waste of time

2844
01:53:43,189 --> 01:53:39,599
carl was pretty straightforward guy um

2845
01:53:45,669 --> 01:53:43,199
like i said i i really thought um

2846
01:53:49,910 --> 01:53:45,679
back to your point i really thought uh

2847
01:53:53,270 --> 01:53:49,920
when i was uh a kid reading as much as i

2848
01:53:55,350 --> 01:53:53,280
could in the late 60s and 70s and

2849
01:53:57,189 --> 01:53:55,360
uh you know you had betty and barney

2850
01:53:58,870 --> 01:53:57,199
hill and and

2851
01:54:01,189 --> 01:53:58,880
and all of these events that just seemed

2852
01:54:03,270 --> 01:54:01,199
like they were happening all the time

2853
01:54:05,750 --> 01:54:03,280
and of course with the you know the moon

2854
01:54:08,229 --> 01:54:05,760
and apollo it was

2855
01:54:10,390 --> 01:54:08,239
it was something that was inevitable

2856
01:54:13,189 --> 01:54:10,400
that it was all true and we were

2857
01:54:15,189 --> 01:54:13,199
interested in it scientifically and

2858
01:54:16,390 --> 01:54:15,199
and as well as uh

2859
01:54:18,390 --> 01:54:16,400
as a

2860
01:54:19,350 --> 01:54:18,400
community in our you know it just seemed

2861
01:54:22,790 --> 01:54:19,360
like

2862
01:54:25,270 --> 01:54:22,800
it was inevitable and then i find out as

2863
01:54:28,709 --> 01:54:25,280
an adult looking back that it wasn't

2864
01:54:31,430 --> 01:54:28,719
taken serious at all and and and you're

2865
01:54:33,430 --> 01:54:31,440
right there was a an enormous amount of

2866
01:54:36,470 --> 01:54:33,440
funds that were spent

2867
01:54:38,629 --> 01:54:36,480
in other areas that could have gone to

2868
01:54:41,350 --> 01:54:38,639
serious scientific research and it just

2869
01:54:43,669 --> 01:54:41,360
never happened yeah i i am absolutely

2870
01:54:46,629 --> 01:54:43,679
convinced that the ufo phenomenon is

2871
01:54:48,149 --> 01:54:46,639
solvable just by ordinary science but

2872
01:54:49,589 --> 01:54:48,159
you just have to have the research you

2873
01:54:52,070 --> 01:54:49,599
have to have the scientists you have to

2874
01:54:54,629 --> 01:54:52,080
have the money that finances

2875
01:54:56,390 --> 01:54:54,639
investigations and laboratory analysis

2876
01:54:57,830 --> 01:54:56,400
and you can solve it

2877
01:54:59,750 --> 01:54:57,840
you know there's enough evidence there

2878
01:55:01,589 --> 01:54:59,760
that scientists have stuff to work with

2879
01:55:03,270 --> 01:55:01,599
they have evidence to work with it it

2880
01:55:05,910 --> 01:55:03,280
should have been solved long ago and

2881
01:55:07,830 --> 01:55:05,920
will be solved but i don't expect that i

2882
01:55:10,149 --> 01:55:07,840
will be around when that happens but i

2883
01:55:12,470 --> 01:55:10,159
don't think he will that the answers

2884
01:55:14,229 --> 01:55:12,480
await us only in the distant future i

2885
01:55:17,270 --> 01:55:14,239
think they're just a generation or two

2886
01:55:19,030 --> 01:55:17,280
away they just demand the will

2887
01:55:20,870 --> 01:55:19,040
and the resources

2888
01:55:22,390 --> 01:55:20,880
now uh um

2889
01:55:24,550 --> 01:55:22,400
i'm not gonna let you get out of here i

2890
01:55:26,470 --> 01:55:24,560
asked you a question at the very very

2891
01:55:28,229 --> 01:55:26,480
beginning when you came on the show

2892
01:55:29,589 --> 01:55:28,239
and that's the beauty of just having a

2893
01:55:31,910 --> 01:55:29,599
conversation

2894
01:55:33,830 --> 01:55:31,920
we went everywhere but answering the

2895
01:55:35,750 --> 01:55:33,840
question which was

2896
01:55:40,790 --> 01:55:35,760
why why do we have these four

2897
01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:44,830
why you know flying saucers to the

2898
01:55:50,709 --> 01:55:48,400
uh cigar-shaped uh the the black

2899
01:55:53,350 --> 01:55:50,719
triangles now we have these

2900
01:55:55,990 --> 01:55:53,360
football field size thing you know these

2901
01:55:58,950 --> 01:55:56,000
descriptions all the time now of of you

2902
01:56:00,950 --> 01:55:58,960
know like the phoenix lights uh uh

2903
01:56:03,189 --> 01:56:00,960
situation what

2904
01:56:05,430 --> 01:56:03,199
is it is it

2905
01:56:07,510 --> 01:56:05,440
is it perception is it what they see on

2906
01:56:10,470 --> 01:56:07,520
television is it

2907
01:56:13,669 --> 01:56:10,480
mind uh implant you know what

2908
01:56:15,510 --> 01:56:13,679
what explains it i i think that you know

2909
01:56:17,109 --> 01:56:15,520
it goes back to what i've been talking

2910
01:56:19,189 --> 01:56:17,119
about all through this conversation and

2911
01:56:22,629 --> 01:56:19,199
that is that there's a core of

2912
01:56:24,550 --> 01:56:22,639
hard evidence cases the event anomalies

2913
01:56:26,149 --> 01:56:24,560
and then there's

2914
01:56:29,270 --> 01:56:26,159
so much of this stuff is kind of

2915
01:56:30,550 --> 01:56:29,280
subjective experience anomalies and i

2916
01:56:31,750 --> 01:56:30,560
think some of these

2917
01:56:35,189 --> 01:56:31,760
accounts

2918
01:56:38,229 --> 01:56:35,199
of just really really strange encounters

2919
01:56:39,830 --> 01:56:38,239
with strange looking craft and so on are

2920
01:56:42,870 --> 01:56:39,840
really not

2921
01:56:45,030 --> 01:56:42,880
even phenomenal and i think the

2922
01:56:46,070 --> 01:56:45,040
confusion the assumption that everything

2923
01:56:48,550 --> 01:56:46,080
that people

2924
01:56:51,270 --> 01:56:48,560
describe in the ufo context

2925
01:56:52,709 --> 01:56:51,280
is one thing as a fundamental error i

2926
01:56:54,830 --> 01:56:52,719
think we're dealing with more than one

2927
01:56:58,550 --> 01:56:54,840
thing we're dealing with at least two

2928
01:57:00,709 --> 01:56:58,560
things and we're and we're dealing with

2929
01:57:04,709 --> 01:57:00,719
the secondary phenomenon the experience

2930
01:57:06,870 --> 01:57:04,719
phenomenon the visionary phenomenon that

2931
01:57:09,589 --> 01:57:06,880
is like dreams that take their

2932
01:57:12,550 --> 01:57:09,599
inspiration from the core

2933
01:57:14,870 --> 01:57:12,560
of real reports of real

2934
01:57:17,510 --> 01:57:14,880
this world

2935
01:57:19,350 --> 01:57:17,520
technological vehicles

2936
01:57:21,430 --> 01:57:19,360
and they and so

2937
01:57:23,030 --> 01:57:21,440
our whole idea of the otherworldly

2938
01:57:25,750 --> 01:57:23,040
justice at one time in the history of

2939
01:57:28,950 --> 01:57:25,760
humanity was conceived of as a

2940
01:57:31,109 --> 01:57:28,960
supernatural fairy race now it's a

2941
01:57:33,510 --> 01:57:31,119
vision of extraterrestrials that's our

2942
01:57:36,229 --> 01:57:33,520
idea of the otherworldly well it may be

2943
01:57:37,830 --> 01:57:36,239
true that a small number of ufo reports

2944
01:57:40,149 --> 01:57:37,840
are suggestive extraterrestrial

2945
01:57:42,310 --> 01:57:40,159
visitation but the rest of this is kind

2946
01:57:43,830 --> 01:57:42,320
of visionary phenomenons experience

2947
01:57:46,709 --> 01:57:43,840
anomalies

2948
01:57:49,030 --> 01:57:46,719
extraordinary dreams of a sort that we

2949
01:57:51,589 --> 01:57:49,040
really don't understand very well so if

2950
01:57:52,870 --> 01:57:51,599
you throw all this together and assume

2951
01:57:55,750 --> 01:57:52,880
it's the same thing you're not going to

2952
01:57:56,790 --> 01:57:55,760
get any coherent vision of what may be

2953
01:57:59,270 --> 01:57:56,800
happening

2954
01:58:00,709 --> 01:57:59,280
but if you separate these things you can

2955
01:58:02,709 --> 01:58:00,719
say okay

2956
01:58:06,149 --> 01:58:02,719
these

2957
01:58:08,470 --> 01:58:06,159
daylight discs show up on radar

2958
01:58:10,790 --> 01:58:08,480
they land and they leave strange traces

2959
01:58:13,030 --> 01:58:10,800
on the ground there's something there

2960
01:58:15,270 --> 01:58:13,040
that science can work with

2961
01:58:16,229 --> 01:58:15,280
but when somebody says that it's weird

2962
01:58:18,310 --> 01:58:16,239
craft

2963
01:58:20,390 --> 01:58:18,320
took me to another planet and the person

2964
01:58:22,149 --> 01:58:20,400
appears to be sane and sincere

2965
01:58:24,709 --> 01:58:22,159
i think that's a whole other order of

2966
01:58:26,310 --> 01:58:24,719
experience

2967
01:58:27,669 --> 01:58:26,320
i have to thank you for coming on

2968
01:58:29,430 --> 01:58:27,679
tonight this is one of the best

2969
01:58:31,510 --> 01:58:29,440
conversations

2970
01:58:34,310 --> 01:58:31,520
i've ever had i hope you enjoyed

2971
01:58:36,070 --> 01:58:34,320
yourself too oh definitely and it's

2972
01:58:38,070 --> 01:58:36,080
really been fun and you've asked good

2973
01:58:39,589 --> 01:58:38,080
questions and as you say it's been like

2974
01:58:41,910 --> 01:58:39,599
a conversation

2975
01:58:43,350 --> 01:58:41,920
now your your most recent book is

2976
01:58:46,870 --> 01:58:43,360
unexplained

2977
01:58:49,750 --> 01:58:46,880
uh you can find that on amazon and i

2978
01:58:50,950 --> 01:58:49,760
will get some links up uh on the site uh

2979
01:58:53,350 --> 01:58:50,960
tonight

2980
01:58:54,950 --> 01:58:53,360
if they if they're not up there now and

2981
01:58:57,430 --> 01:58:54,960
uh and we'll take care of that for are

2982
01:58:59,189 --> 01:58:57,440
you gonna speak anytime soon in public

2983
01:59:00,709 --> 01:58:59,199
do you have anything any events coming

2984
01:59:03,750 --> 01:59:00,719
up

2985
01:59:06,550 --> 01:59:03,760
no i'm kind of a reclusive guy

2986
01:59:09,430 --> 01:59:06,560
i i used to do all of that but i just

2987
01:59:10,629 --> 01:59:09,440
stay home with my family and my cats

2988
01:59:12,229 --> 01:59:10,639
and that's why

2989
01:59:15,510 --> 01:59:12,239
i just have to say thank you for coming

2990
01:59:17,510 --> 01:59:15,520
out of semi-retirement and this uh for

2991
01:59:20,149 --> 01:59:17,520
everybody out there this man it means a

2992
01:59:21,990 --> 01:59:20,159
lot to everybody and it was just a

2993
01:59:24,070 --> 01:59:22,000
wonderful experience thank you very much

2994
01:59:25,030 --> 01:59:24,080
well thank you very much

2995
01:59:32,149 --> 01:59:25,040
good night

2996
01:59:35,990 --> 01:59:33,669
wow

2997
01:59:37,910 --> 01:59:36,000
jimmychurchradio.com

2998
01:59:40,790 --> 01:59:37,920
and what more can i say that's fade to

2999
01:59:41,910 --> 01:59:40,800
black that was jerome clark

3000
01:59:43,669 --> 01:59:41,920
and

3001
01:59:45,350 --> 01:59:43,679
i've never had a conversation like that

3002
01:59:47,750 --> 01:59:45,360
before that was just extraordinary i

3003
01:59:49,430 --> 01:59:47,760
feel a little dumb at the moment

3004
01:59:51,350 --> 01:59:49,440
this is fade to black i'm your host

3005
01:59:55,430 --> 01:59:51,360
jimmy church stay with us and take a

3006
01:59:59,910 --> 01:59:57,430
what's up my name is brian taylor ninja

3007
02:00:04,790 --> 01:59:59,920
badass extraordinaire and this is

3008
02:00:11,270 --> 02:00:05,629
hey

3009
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:32,550
matter jimmychurchradio.com network

3010
02:00:36,149 --> 02:00:34,870
fade to black on the dark matter radio

3011
02:00:38,229 --> 02:00:36,159
network

3012
02:00:39,589 --> 02:00:38,239
let's open up the phone lines three two

3013
02:00:42,790 --> 02:00:39,599
three

3014
02:00:44,629 --> 02:00:42,800
eight two five fifty forty five i would

3015
02:00:46,550 --> 02:00:44,639
like to uh

3016
02:00:48,149 --> 02:00:46,560
get your input on that conversation that

3017
02:00:49,830 --> 02:00:48,159
was absolutely incredible the phone

3018
02:00:50,629 --> 02:00:49,840
lines are wide open

3019
02:00:57,030 --> 02:00:50,639
three

3020
02:00:59,750 --> 02:00:57,040
five i've got a bunch of other stuff

3021
02:01:00,790 --> 02:00:59,760
that i wanted to try to get into this

3022
02:01:02,870 --> 02:01:00,800
evening

3023
02:01:05,510 --> 02:01:02,880
and cover so

3024
02:01:07,189 --> 02:01:05,520
i'm gonna get into some of that but

3025
02:01:10,310 --> 02:01:07,199
i just wanna say what you just

3026
02:01:12,310 --> 02:01:10,320
experienced right there

3027
02:01:16,070 --> 02:01:12,320
with jerome clark

3028
02:01:18,629 --> 02:01:16,080
this is one of the most uh prolific

3029
02:01:20,870 --> 02:01:18,639
extraordinary writers and if you haven't

3030
02:01:23,350 --> 02:01:20,880
in our generation and if you haven't

3031
02:01:24,709 --> 02:01:23,360
experienced any of it you've got to go

3032
02:01:25,910 --> 02:01:24,719
and read

3033
02:01:29,109 --> 02:01:25,920
he uh

3034
02:01:32,709 --> 02:01:29,119
was somebody that i had to seek out

3035
02:01:34,390 --> 02:01:32,719
and uh he so graciously agreed to come

3036
02:01:35,510 --> 02:01:34,400
on and spend some time with us tonight

3037
02:01:38,310 --> 02:01:35,520
but that was

3038
02:01:40,149 --> 02:01:38,320
that was any an event and

3039
02:01:42,870 --> 02:01:40,159
you just heard him say it himself it's

3040
02:01:46,790 --> 02:01:42,880
something that he just doesn't do

3041
02:01:48,870 --> 02:01:46,800
and and talking to him and and uh

3042
02:01:50,149 --> 02:01:48,880
with uh with our conversations

3043
02:01:51,669 --> 02:01:50,159
throughout the week he couldn't wait to

3044
02:01:54,870 --> 02:01:51,679
come on the show when he was excited

3045
02:01:58,310 --> 02:01:54,880
about it he just doesn't do it often and

3046
02:01:59,430 --> 02:01:58,320
that was uh extraordinary to say the

3047
02:02:02,950 --> 02:01:59,440
least

3048
02:02:05,589 --> 02:02:02,960
and for him to and i want to

3049
02:02:08,790 --> 02:02:05,599
i want to summarize a little bit about a

3050
02:02:10,870 --> 02:02:08,800
a couple of points that he made now

3051
02:02:13,510 --> 02:02:10,880
uh earlier

3052
02:02:16,550 --> 02:02:13,520
uh this week he sent me a couple of uh

3053
02:02:17,510 --> 02:02:16,560
papers and so i went through and i read

3054
02:02:18,629 --> 02:02:17,520
them

3055
02:02:22,709 --> 02:02:18,639
and

3056
02:02:24,550 --> 02:02:22,719
conversation was about tonight

3057
02:02:26,229 --> 02:02:24,560
the anomaly

3058
02:02:28,070 --> 02:02:26,239
the experience anomaly and what the

3059
02:02:29,950 --> 02:02:28,080
difference between the two of them are

3060
02:02:32,629 --> 02:02:29,960
by the way shoot me an email to jimmy

3061
02:02:35,830 --> 02:02:32,639
jimmychurchradio.com i've got a a big

3062
02:02:37,470 --> 02:02:35,840
chunk of uh email in front of me

3063
02:02:39,270 --> 02:02:37,480
uh send me some more jimmy

3064
02:02:42,310 --> 02:02:39,280
jimmychurchradio.com if i can get to

3065
02:02:44,790 --> 02:02:42,320
them uh i will but i want the emails to

3066
02:02:47,189 --> 02:02:44,800
come in in real time in response to what

3067
02:02:50,550 --> 02:02:47,199
i'm talking about okay and what you just

3068
02:02:52,470 --> 02:02:50,560
experienced also over and i can see that

3069
02:02:54,950 --> 02:02:52,480
there's been some posting going on in

3070
02:02:56,070 --> 02:02:54,960
the forums i'm looking at that now too

3071
02:02:58,550 --> 02:02:56,080
as well

3072
02:03:00,070 --> 02:02:58,560
and please get over the form i will

3073
02:03:02,229 --> 02:03:00,080
respond

3074
02:03:04,550 --> 02:03:02,239
in the forum after the show tonight i

3075
02:03:06,669 --> 02:03:04,560
will to get as much of that done as i

3076
02:03:08,550 --> 02:03:06,679
can that is uh

3077
02:03:10,790 --> 02:03:08,560
jimmychurchradio.com go to the forum

3078
02:03:12,830 --> 02:03:10,800
social forums page okay

3079
02:03:14,390 --> 02:03:12,840
now uh so

3080
02:03:17,030 --> 02:03:14,400
anyway

3081
02:03:19,589 --> 02:03:17,040
there's two different anomalies that

3082
02:03:21,109 --> 02:03:19,599
he's referring to and

3083
02:03:24,550 --> 02:03:21,119
by the way i'm watching the emails come

3084
02:03:27,830 --> 02:03:24,560
in anomaly anomaly anomaly there's two

3085
02:03:30,950 --> 02:03:27,840
there's the event anomaly which is

3086
02:03:33,830 --> 02:03:30,960
something that can be backed up with

3087
02:03:35,350 --> 02:03:33,840
some type of fact a second witness a

3088
02:03:36,870 --> 02:03:35,360
photograph

3089
02:03:38,149 --> 02:03:36,880
radar

3090
02:03:41,430 --> 02:03:38,159
um

3091
02:03:43,589 --> 02:03:41,440
film video there's there's that aspect

3092
02:03:45,910 --> 02:03:43,599
of it where it's backed up by some it's

3093
02:03:47,910 --> 02:03:45,920
an event that actually happened trace

3094
02:03:50,629 --> 02:03:47,920
evidence physical stuff

3095
02:03:53,750 --> 02:03:50,639
and then there is the experience anomaly

3096
02:03:54,790 --> 02:03:53,760
which is something that you can't back

3097
02:03:56,629 --> 02:03:54,800
up

3098
02:03:58,950 --> 02:03:56,639
it's just your experience

3099
02:03:59,910 --> 02:03:58,960
you have no proof

3100
02:04:02,310 --> 02:03:59,920
and

3101
02:04:05,830 --> 02:04:02,320
uh you heard me tell the story earlier

3102
02:04:07,830 --> 02:04:05,840
about my little experience anomaly

3103
02:04:08,709 --> 02:04:07,840
and this paper today

3104
02:04:12,629 --> 02:04:08,719
uh

3105
02:04:16,550 --> 02:04:12,639
or the the the paper that i had read

3106
02:04:19,189 --> 02:04:16,560
uh explains uh the experience anomaly

3107
02:04:22,470 --> 02:04:19,199
that has gone back throughout history

3108
02:04:25,510 --> 02:04:22,480
and how it can tie in and does tie in

3109
02:04:29,990 --> 02:04:25,520
all the way up to today

3110
02:04:31,589 --> 02:04:30,000
where the experience anomaly in in uh

3111
02:04:35,990 --> 02:04:31,599
in folklore

3112
02:04:37,510 --> 02:04:36,000
with uh fairies and and gnomes and other

3113
02:04:38,790 --> 02:04:37,520
types of things that could never be

3114
02:04:40,870 --> 02:04:38,800
proven

3115
02:04:43,669 --> 02:04:40,880
uh there's that and but it goes all the

3116
02:04:48,709 --> 02:04:43,679
way through the airship phenomena that

3117
02:04:51,510 --> 02:04:48,719
happened in the late 1800s early 1900s

3118
02:04:54,470 --> 02:04:51,520
the report started as as you had heard

3119
02:04:57,510 --> 02:04:54,480
him say today and i've read a lot about

3120
02:05:00,790 --> 02:04:57,520
1870 1880 a couple of sporadic things

3121
02:05:03,229 --> 02:05:00,800
are surfacing with these airships going

3122
02:05:06,790 --> 02:05:03,239
through the 1900s

3123
02:05:10,229 --> 02:05:06,800
1901 0203

3124
02:05:11,990 --> 02:05:10,239
but there wasn't any proof

3125
02:05:13,750 --> 02:05:12,000
witnesses

3126
02:05:15,830 --> 02:05:13,760
came forward

3127
02:05:18,390 --> 02:05:15,840
telling their story but there wasn't

3128
02:05:20,390 --> 02:05:18,400
actually any proof of anything that had

3129
02:05:23,910 --> 02:05:20,400
happened that is an experience

3130
02:05:25,109 --> 02:05:23,920
anomaly that goes all the way up through

3131
02:05:28,790 --> 02:05:25,119
today

3132
02:05:30,629 --> 02:05:28,800
and when you have somebody that says

3133
02:05:32,709 --> 02:05:30,639
uh something happened to them but they

3134
02:05:34,390 --> 02:05:32,719
can't prove it doesn't necessarily mean

3135
02:05:35,350 --> 02:05:34,400
that it didn't happen

3136
02:05:38,229 --> 02:05:35,360
and

3137
02:05:42,229 --> 02:05:38,239
there is something to

3138
02:05:44,310 --> 02:05:42,239
the ufo experience in et experience

3139
02:05:46,629 --> 02:05:44,320
a close encounter experience that can't

3140
02:05:48,550 --> 02:05:46,639
be proven that is very similar to

3141
02:05:50,310 --> 02:05:48,560
stories that have been going on for

3142
02:05:53,189 --> 02:05:50,320
hundreds of years

3143
02:05:55,589 --> 02:05:53,199
it's a very when i said earlier this was

3144
02:05:57,669 --> 02:05:55,599
something where just a light went off in

3145
02:06:00,629 --> 02:05:57,679
my head where it's like you know it's it

3146
02:06:03,030 --> 02:06:00,639
just makes an awful lot of sense

3147
02:06:05,350 --> 02:06:03,040
and if you think about it in those terms

3148
02:06:06,390 --> 02:06:05,360
it answers a lot of questions and one

3149
02:06:08,069 --> 02:06:06,400
day

3150
02:06:11,030 --> 02:06:08,079
we will be able to

3151
02:06:14,310 --> 02:06:11,040
prove the experience anomaly

3152
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:14,320
and and i i firmly believe that and

3153
02:06:19,430 --> 02:06:15,360
there's

3154
02:06:22,229 --> 02:06:19,440
some inter-dimensional

3155
02:06:24,629 --> 02:06:22,239
parallel thing that answers a lot of

3156
02:06:26,149 --> 02:06:24,639
questions not only with ufo sightings

3157
02:06:29,750 --> 02:06:26,159
and video and

3158
02:06:32,390 --> 02:06:29,760
and photographs in the event anomaly but

3159
02:06:34,310 --> 02:06:32,400
uh also with the uh

3160
02:06:36,229 --> 02:06:34,320
experience anomaly and if you look at it

3161
02:06:38,310 --> 02:06:36,239
in those terms it does make a lot of

3162
02:06:41,350 --> 02:06:38,320
sense and having him come in and explain

3163
02:06:44,870 --> 02:06:41,360
it i could not wait to have him come in

3164
02:06:48,709 --> 02:06:44,880
and just make sense of it for me because

3165
02:06:51,910 --> 02:06:48,719
it uh it it it was easy for me to read

3166
02:06:54,550 --> 02:06:51,920
today but i needed somebody to explain

3167
02:06:56,629 --> 02:06:54,560
it and i hope everybody out there

3168
02:06:58,629 --> 02:06:56,639
learned something today

3169
02:07:00,709 --> 02:06:58,639
all right again the phone lines are open

3170
02:07:02,069 --> 02:07:00,719
i'm going to take a break get uh get in

3171
02:07:05,990 --> 02:07:02,079
on the phones

3172
02:07:08,229 --> 02:07:06,000
get in they are open right now 3 2 3 8 2

3173
02:07:11,030 --> 02:07:08,239
5 50 45 when i come back i'll be taking

3174
02:07:12,550 --> 02:07:11,040
your calls this is fade to black i'm

3175
02:07:14,229 --> 02:07:12,560
your host jimmy church on the dark

3176
02:07:36,069 --> 02:07:14,239
matter radio network i'll be back in a

3177
02:07:40,709 --> 02:07:38,069
this is william from locker center and i

3178
02:07:42,229 --> 02:07:40,719
listen to jimmy jimmychurchradio.com

3179
02:07:43,830 --> 02:07:42,239
jeffy church

3180
02:07:48,149 --> 02:07:43,840
church my name is alan i listen to

3181
02:07:48,159 --> 02:07:53,030
he's always giving it to you straight

3182
02:07:58,709 --> 02:07:56,709
dark matter churchradio.com network

3183
02:08:03,350 --> 02:07:58,719
hi this is rob reiner from anvil and

3184
02:08:06,870 --> 02:08:05,350
what's up i'm chris what up this is kyle

3185
02:08:22,229 --> 02:08:06,880
and you're listening to jimmy church

3186
02:08:22,239 --> 02:08:24,950
all right

3187
02:08:30,229 --> 02:08:27,910
kjcr fade to black

3188
02:08:33,669 --> 02:08:30,239
i am your host jimmy church we are live

3189
02:08:35,669 --> 02:08:33,679
from burbank california

3190
02:08:40,069 --> 02:08:35,679
90 degrees here today absolutely

3191
02:08:44,550 --> 02:08:42,430
all right shoot me an email to jimmy at

3192
02:08:46,870 --> 02:08:44,560
jimmychurchradio.com do follow us on

3193
02:08:48,470 --> 02:08:46,880
twitter at j church radio get over to

3194
02:08:51,430 --> 02:08:48,480
youtube

3195
02:08:53,350 --> 02:08:51,440
subscribe all of these shows are

3196
02:08:55,669 --> 02:08:53,360
archived there i think we even have it

3197
02:08:57,589 --> 02:08:55,679
at jimmychurchradio.com

3198
02:08:59,750 --> 02:08:57,599
uh and do participate in those social

3199
02:09:01,430 --> 02:08:59,760
forums and i'm really excited about the

3200
02:09:02,709 --> 02:09:01,440
addition of that

3201
02:09:05,270 --> 02:09:02,719
and uh

3202
02:09:07,669 --> 02:09:05,280
uh the participation to me is one of the

3203
02:09:10,470 --> 02:09:07,679
best forms of freedom of speech and

3204
02:09:12,229 --> 02:09:10,480
that's what this show is all about

3205
02:09:14,870 --> 02:09:12,239
i want to read a couple of emails here

3206
02:09:17,189 --> 02:09:14,880
oh i just wanted to say this

3207
02:09:21,750 --> 02:09:17,199
uh when you have on a guy like jerome

3208
02:09:25,030 --> 02:09:21,760
clark where we are able to freely

3209
02:09:27,350 --> 02:09:25,040
exchange uh ideas in a conversation like

3210
02:09:29,589 --> 02:09:27,360
that that is something that you just

3211
02:09:31,589 --> 02:09:29,599
don't get it's kind of like

3212
02:09:33,750 --> 02:09:31,599
you know charlie rose

3213
02:09:35,510 --> 02:09:33,760
you know love charlie rose but if you

3214
02:09:38,310 --> 02:09:35,520
think about the way that he approaches

3215
02:09:40,870 --> 02:09:38,320
things you just don't get that too often

3216
02:09:42,229 --> 02:09:40,880
anywhere if not at all

3217
02:09:45,510 --> 02:09:42,239
and

3218
02:09:47,430 --> 02:09:45,520
having that kind of conversation today

3219
02:09:50,950 --> 02:09:47,440
freely back and forth

3220
02:09:54,870 --> 02:09:50,960
you just don't get out of radio

3221
02:09:57,109 --> 02:09:54,880
anywhere and that is why i do this show

3222
02:09:58,950 --> 02:09:57,119
i need to you know one of the things

3223
02:10:00,550 --> 02:09:58,960
when i'm gonna go on the way back

3224
02:10:04,709 --> 02:10:00,560
machine for a second but

3225
02:10:07,990 --> 02:10:04,719
when i decided to get into radio it was

3226
02:10:09,750 --> 02:10:08,000
because i just wasn't getting

3227
02:10:10,629 --> 02:10:09,760
what i needed

3228
02:10:16,310 --> 02:10:10,639
from

3229
02:10:18,629 --> 02:10:16,320
get like half and it was something that

3230
02:10:19,830 --> 02:10:18,639
i just thought if i ever

3231
02:10:21,830 --> 02:10:19,840
get back you know i'm going to go back

3232
02:10:24,870 --> 02:10:21,840
to school i want to i want to get into

3233
02:10:26,149 --> 02:10:24,880
this and i want to

3234
02:10:27,510 --> 02:10:26,159
uh

3235
02:10:30,629 --> 02:10:27,520
give

3236
02:10:35,589 --> 02:10:30,639
i i wanted to have a program

3237
02:10:37,750 --> 02:10:35,599
that allowed myself to give 100 where i

3238
02:10:40,470 --> 02:10:37,760
knew that deep down inside

3239
02:10:43,270 --> 02:10:40,480
i wasn't holding back for anybody and

3240
02:10:45,750 --> 02:10:43,280
then that would that that's the little

3241
02:10:48,229 --> 02:10:45,760
piece that i was missing if i could just

3242
02:10:50,069 --> 02:10:48,239
find a way to give that back and that

3243
02:10:52,310 --> 02:10:50,079
conversation we just had with jerome

3244
02:10:54,870 --> 02:10:52,320
clark not only that all of our guests

3245
02:10:57,189 --> 02:10:54,880
but that's a classic example

3246
02:11:00,390 --> 02:10:57,199
of not holding back

3247
02:11:04,629 --> 02:11:00,400
and he knew that he didn't have to hold

3248
02:11:07,990 --> 02:11:04,639
back he was able to just just talk

3249
02:11:10,149 --> 02:11:08,000
freely and open up that frontal lobe of

3250
02:11:13,510 --> 02:11:10,159
his brain and get that connected to his

3251
02:11:16,629 --> 02:11:13,520
mouth and his and be able to just talk

3252
02:11:18,069 --> 02:11:16,639
and it comes across and i hope that you

3253
02:11:19,669 --> 02:11:18,079
enjoyed

3254
02:11:22,229 --> 02:11:19,679
exactly

3255
02:11:24,069 --> 02:11:22,239
uh how i felt that it comes across

3256
02:11:25,830 --> 02:11:24,079
because that is important to me shoot me

3257
02:11:26,870 --> 02:11:25,840
an email tell me

3258
02:11:28,470 --> 02:11:26,880
tweet

3259
02:11:30,790 --> 02:11:28,480
just let me know that we're on target

3260
02:11:33,350 --> 02:11:30,800
that you're you understand what i'm

3261
02:11:35,589 --> 02:11:33,360
trying to say right now it is very

3262
02:11:37,350 --> 02:11:35,599
important to have that kind of open

3263
02:11:38,550 --> 02:11:37,360
lines of communication

3264
02:11:41,189 --> 02:11:38,560
all right i want to read a couple of

3265
02:11:42,870 --> 02:11:41,199
emails uh and by the way uh

3266
02:11:44,629 --> 02:11:42,880
got some phone calls coming in three two

3267
02:11:46,149 --> 02:11:44,639
three

3268
02:11:47,750 --> 02:11:46,159
eight two five

3269
02:11:49,510 --> 02:11:47,760
fifty forty five

3270
02:11:50,709 --> 02:11:49,520
and if you're not writing it down get

3271
02:11:52,870 --> 02:11:50,719
over to the website get over to

3272
02:11:54,709 --> 02:11:52,880
jimmychurchradio.com the phone number is

3273
02:11:56,550 --> 02:11:54,719
right there you can also skype we have a

3274
02:11:58,069 --> 02:11:56,560
skype line too as well which is fade to

3275
02:11:59,990 --> 02:11:58,079
black 14.

3276
02:12:01,430 --> 02:12:00,000
love the way that skype sounds by the

3277
02:12:02,790 --> 02:12:01,440
way and if you have a really good

3278
02:12:05,189 --> 02:12:02,800
microphone

3279
02:12:07,589 --> 02:12:05,199
on your computer or a headset skype

3280
02:12:09,830 --> 02:12:07,599
skype is wonderful skype sounds like me

3281
02:12:13,030 --> 02:12:09,840
right now it sounds like you're right in

3282
02:12:13,910 --> 02:12:13,040
here okay couple emails really quick

3283
02:12:27,990 --> 02:12:13,920
hi

3284
02:12:31,510 --> 02:12:28,000
was driving home from vegas

3285
02:12:33,750 --> 02:12:31,520
and we were in the mountains of wyoming

3286
02:12:35,430 --> 02:12:33,760
and my buddy went to sleep in the back

3287
02:12:38,470 --> 02:12:35,440
of the winnebago

3288
02:12:41,830 --> 02:12:38,480
and it was 10 30 11 o'clock at night and

3289
02:12:45,350 --> 02:12:41,840
i suddenly became very drowsy

3290
02:12:47,270 --> 02:12:45,360
so i was going to wake my buddy and let

3291
02:12:50,229 --> 02:12:47,280
him drive

3292
02:12:53,109 --> 02:12:50,239
jimmy the next the very next thing i

3293
02:12:56,550 --> 02:12:53,119
remember i awoke completely rested and i

3294
02:12:59,030 --> 02:12:56,560
was driving the vehicle with my hand on

3295
02:13:01,189 --> 02:12:59,040
the wheel and at first i didn't know

3296
02:13:03,350 --> 02:13:01,199
where i was

3297
02:13:06,149 --> 02:13:03,360
then soon i saw the sun breaking over

3298
02:13:09,109 --> 02:13:06,159
the horizon causing dawn and i saw a

3299
02:13:12,310 --> 02:13:09,119
sign on the interstate and it said i was

3300
02:13:15,189 --> 02:13:12,320
about an hour from denver colorado and

3301
02:13:18,390 --> 02:13:15,199
was exactly where i should be my buddy

3302
02:13:20,310 --> 02:13:18,400
awoke and he said i did a great job and

3303
02:13:23,030 --> 02:13:20,320
that he slapped me out then he slapped

3304
02:13:25,189 --> 02:13:23,040
me on the shoulder and said wow you

3305
02:13:27,189 --> 02:13:25,199
never even stopped and i

3306
02:13:29,430 --> 02:13:27,199
didn't use any gas

3307
02:13:31,750 --> 02:13:29,440
i was at a total loss to explain this

3308
02:13:34,229 --> 02:13:31,760
experience and my buddy drove home to

3309
02:13:36,310 --> 02:13:34,239
the southeast nebraska

3310
02:13:38,870 --> 02:13:36,320
and i was wide awake for the next 10

3311
02:13:41,669 --> 02:13:38,880
hours home yes it's all true what a

3312
02:13:43,030 --> 02:13:41,679
strange experience and how can anybody

3313
02:13:44,870 --> 02:13:43,040
explain it

3314
02:13:48,550 --> 02:13:44,880
and that's exactly

3315
02:13:50,550 --> 02:13:48,560
what an experience anomaly is

3316
02:13:53,350 --> 02:13:50,560
i uh

3317
02:13:55,669 --> 02:13:53,360
i had a i had a friend you know what i i

3318
02:13:56,950 --> 02:13:55,679
can say his first name his name is dell

3319
02:14:00,950 --> 02:13:56,960
and uh

3320
02:14:03,589 --> 02:14:00,960
when we were this is about 20 years ago

3321
02:14:05,270 --> 02:14:03,599
and i was over at his house or at his

3322
02:14:06,629 --> 02:14:05,280
brother's house

3323
02:14:07,510 --> 02:14:06,639
and uh

3324
02:14:14,390 --> 02:14:07,520
the

3325
02:14:15,510 --> 02:14:14,400
and we had about 10 or 20 people over at

3326
02:14:19,669 --> 02:14:15,520
the house

3327
02:14:22,470 --> 02:14:19,679
and his brother tells us this story

3328
02:14:24,069 --> 02:14:22,480
older gentlemen i mean i was probably 22

3329
02:14:27,350 --> 02:14:24,079
23 years old at the time and i'm going

3330
02:14:28,790 --> 02:14:27,360
to say his brother was in his

3331
02:14:31,189 --> 02:14:28,800
early 40s

3332
02:14:33,830 --> 02:14:31,199
tells us this story and this is an

3333
02:14:35,350 --> 02:14:33,840
experience anomaly

3334
02:14:36,950 --> 02:14:35,360
he says that they were

3335
02:14:41,430 --> 02:14:36,960
he was driving down

3336
02:14:43,830 --> 02:14:41,440
uh the angelus crest freeway

3337
02:14:45,430 --> 02:14:43,840
which uh for everybody to understand the

3338
02:14:48,149 --> 02:14:45,440
angelus crest

3339
02:14:50,790 --> 02:14:48,159
highway freeway is a

3340
02:14:52,870 --> 02:14:50,800
winding road that goes up through the

3341
02:14:55,109 --> 02:14:52,880
mountains here in california that

3342
02:14:57,750 --> 02:14:55,119
connect the

3343
02:14:59,350 --> 02:14:57,760
san fernando san gabriel

3344
02:15:00,950 --> 02:14:59,360
valley

3345
02:15:03,350 --> 02:15:00,960
all the way to the other side to the

3346
02:15:06,149 --> 02:15:03,360
mojave desert so if you take

3347
02:15:08,870 --> 02:15:06,159
that freeway and i have no idea how many

3348
02:15:11,189 --> 02:15:08,880
miles it is but it's got to be 50 100

3349
02:15:12,310 --> 02:15:11,199
miles um the way it winds through the

3350
02:15:14,950 --> 02:15:12,320
mountains

3351
02:15:17,030 --> 02:15:14,960
goes up over mount waterman to the other

3352
02:15:19,669 --> 02:15:17,040
side ends up in the mojave desert on the

3353
02:15:21,270 --> 02:15:19,679
far side but it is a winding winding

3354
02:15:23,750 --> 02:15:21,280
road that you see in all of the tv

3355
02:15:25,589 --> 02:15:23,760
commercials when you see a car

3356
02:15:27,669 --> 02:15:25,599
winding down a beautiful highway it

3357
02:15:30,790 --> 02:15:27,679
always tends to be the angeles crest

3358
02:15:33,030 --> 02:15:30,800
highway very beautiful winding road

3359
02:15:35,030 --> 02:15:33,040
some of it can be very secluded some of

3360
02:15:37,510 --> 02:15:35,040
it there's a lot of traffic on a lot of

3361
02:15:39,750 --> 02:15:37,520
motorcycles go up there and race and and

3362
02:15:42,149 --> 02:15:39,760
do stuff well anyway he's up on the

3363
02:15:43,430 --> 02:15:42,159
angeles crest highway

3364
02:15:44,629 --> 02:15:43,440
and

3365
02:15:48,470 --> 02:15:44,639
he

3366
02:15:51,669 --> 02:15:48,480
uh

3367
02:15:53,510 --> 02:15:51,679
a little a little person

3368
02:15:55,830 --> 02:15:53,520
in a silver

3369
02:15:57,510 --> 02:15:55,840
suit with a helmet on

3370
02:15:59,750 --> 02:15:57,520
space helmet

3371
02:16:01,589 --> 02:15:59,760
running across

3372
02:16:05,750 --> 02:16:01,599
the road

3373
02:16:09,430 --> 02:16:05,760
and he pulls his car over and i

3374
02:16:11,030 --> 02:16:09,440
he sees another one run across the road

3375
02:16:13,270 --> 02:16:11,040
and

3376
02:16:15,270 --> 02:16:13,280
down the mountainside

3377
02:16:16,390 --> 02:16:15,280
he pulls the car over gets out of his

3378
02:16:17,510 --> 02:16:16,400
car

3379
02:16:19,109 --> 02:16:17,520
and

3380
02:16:20,709 --> 02:16:19,119
uh

3381
02:16:22,229 --> 02:16:20,719
takes chase

3382
02:16:25,350 --> 02:16:22,239
runs into the woods

3383
02:16:27,430 --> 02:16:25,360
and he can see them up in front of him

3384
02:16:29,109 --> 02:16:27,440
and they're very short they're they're

3385
02:16:31,669 --> 02:16:29,119
two feet tall

3386
02:16:32,790 --> 02:16:31,679
not three feet not four very very very

3387
02:16:36,230 --> 02:16:32,800
short

3388
02:16:37,910 --> 02:16:36,240
but they did have some type of

3389
02:16:40,709 --> 02:16:37,920
suit on

3390
02:16:43,589 --> 02:16:40,719
uh like a spacesuit not a tight fitting

3391
02:16:46,150 --> 02:16:43,599
not this but it was like a suit suit

3392
02:16:48,309 --> 02:16:46,160
a breathing apparatus helmet the whole

3393
02:16:49,669 --> 02:16:48,319
shot but they were very very short two

3394
02:16:51,830 --> 02:16:49,679
feet tall

3395
02:16:54,469 --> 02:16:51,840
but they're booking and they are running

3396
02:16:56,389 --> 02:16:54,479
through the woods the two of them

3397
02:16:58,230 --> 02:16:56,399
and he's chasing him going deeper and

3398
02:17:01,030 --> 02:16:58,240
deeper and deeper into the woods and

3399
02:17:02,709 --> 02:17:01,040
cannot catch them he can see them

3400
02:17:05,030 --> 02:17:02,719
he can make out

3401
02:17:06,709 --> 02:17:05,040
details they're not that far ahead but

3402
02:17:08,389 --> 02:17:06,719
what he can't do is catch them they're

3403
02:17:10,549 --> 02:17:08,399
always staying a little bit in front of

3404
02:17:13,589 --> 02:17:10,559
them oh by the way this is like

3405
02:17:16,309 --> 02:17:13,599
12 noon it's in the middle of the day

3406
02:17:17,910 --> 02:17:16,319
and eventually he tires out and gives up

3407
02:17:19,030 --> 02:17:17,920
the chase

3408
02:17:21,509 --> 02:17:19,040
and

3409
02:17:24,150 --> 02:17:21,519
he chased them for 30 minutes into the

3410
02:17:27,349 --> 02:17:24,160
woods and he turns around and he's got a

3411
02:17:28,790 --> 02:17:27,359
hike all the way back to the car

3412
02:17:30,870 --> 02:17:28,800
now

3413
02:17:33,509 --> 02:17:30,880
he tells me this story

3414
02:17:36,950 --> 02:17:33,519
that's an experience anomaly

3415
02:17:38,709 --> 02:17:36,960
in that he's got no witness got no proof

3416
02:17:40,709 --> 02:17:38,719
he got no cameras and it's an

3417
02:17:44,070 --> 02:17:40,719
extraordinary story and you can't

3418
02:17:45,509 --> 02:17:44,080
explain it away what do you do with that

3419
02:17:47,030 --> 02:17:45,519
and for him

3420
02:17:49,990 --> 02:17:47,040
he was so

3421
02:17:51,509 --> 02:17:50,000
matter-of-fact and the the detail and

3422
02:17:53,990 --> 02:17:51,519
the level of the detail of everything

3423
02:17:55,990 --> 02:17:54,000
that he uh hit me with in this story

3424
02:17:58,629 --> 02:17:56,000
kept me i was breathless i was just

3425
02:18:00,790 --> 02:17:58,639
sitting there you've got to be joking

3426
02:18:03,830 --> 02:18:00,800
really now i want to get i might guess

3427
02:18:06,309 --> 02:18:03,840
and say this was 1980

3428
02:18:09,030 --> 02:18:06,319
85 when he told me the story this so

3429
02:18:11,830 --> 02:18:09,040
this is almost 30 years ago now

3430
02:18:13,030 --> 02:18:11,840
but it left a mark with me and to this

3431
02:18:15,589 --> 02:18:13,040
day

3432
02:18:17,910 --> 02:18:15,599
i have not forgotten that story i've got

3433
02:18:19,190 --> 02:18:17,920
to get a whole i i will get his brother

3434
02:18:20,950 --> 02:18:19,200
on the air

3435
02:18:22,549 --> 02:18:20,960
and have him tell this story i would

3436
02:18:24,230 --> 02:18:22,559
love for him to tell the story again it

3437
02:18:25,750 --> 02:18:24,240
was one of those things that took me

3438
02:18:27,750 --> 02:18:25,760
down the road

3439
02:18:30,389 --> 02:18:27,760
of ufology

3440
02:18:32,150 --> 02:18:30,399
and uh we um i've got a couple other

3441
02:18:33,349 --> 02:18:32,160
things i need to talk about and get to

3442
02:18:35,509 --> 02:18:33,359
here but

3443
02:18:36,870 --> 02:18:35,519
um i uh

3444
02:18:50,870 --> 02:18:36,880
he

3445
02:18:53,110 --> 02:18:50,880
took me down that

3446
02:18:55,830 --> 02:18:53,120
that path originally but

3447
02:18:56,790 --> 02:18:55,840
he he had this event that happened to

3448
02:19:02,709 --> 02:18:56,800
him

3449
02:19:05,669 --> 02:19:02,719
out and got every single thing that he

3450
02:19:07,990 --> 02:19:05,679
could every book and ever i mean he had

3451
02:19:11,030 --> 02:19:08,000
a stack of billy meyer he had a stack of

3452
02:19:13,349 --> 02:19:11,040
this and these uh these videos

3453
02:19:15,030 --> 02:19:13,359
and it changed his life but he had told

3454
02:19:18,230 --> 02:19:15,040
me then that it was something that you

3455
02:19:20,150 --> 02:19:18,240
know he was uncomfortable talking uh and

3456
02:19:21,509 --> 02:19:20,160
telling a story to people because nobody

3457
02:19:22,309 --> 02:19:21,519
believed them and

3458
02:19:24,629 --> 02:19:22,319
and

3459
02:19:26,469 --> 02:19:24,639
if i remember right this guy was an

3460
02:19:29,030 --> 02:19:26,479
electrical engineer

3461
02:19:31,990 --> 02:19:29,040
and lived in a nice place down in uh el

3462
02:19:35,910 --> 02:19:32,000
toro down in in in southern california

3463
02:19:39,830 --> 02:19:35,920
nice area and just a normal guy by all

3464
02:19:42,870 --> 02:19:39,840
accounts but he had his life changed

3465
02:19:44,469 --> 02:19:42,880
and in an indirect way and he doesn't he

3466
02:19:46,150 --> 02:19:44,479
doesn't know it now

3467
02:19:48,549 --> 02:19:46,160
but it changed my life too as well

3468
02:19:51,429 --> 02:19:48,559
listening to him tell this story and i

3469
02:19:52,870 --> 02:19:51,439
believed everything that he said there

3470
02:19:55,030 --> 02:19:52,880
was no reason

3471
02:19:56,870 --> 02:19:55,040
for him to make any of this up couple of

3472
02:19:59,349 --> 02:19:56,880
creatures run across the angeles crest

3473
02:20:01,270 --> 02:19:59,359
highway he see pulls over his car and

3474
02:20:02,389 --> 02:20:01,280
he's got to go and invest see what it

3475
02:20:04,309 --> 02:20:02,399
was

3476
02:20:05,830 --> 02:20:04,319
you know it's a that's a crazy story and

3477
02:20:08,230 --> 02:20:05,840
it's not like a story that you've heard

3478
02:20:10,630 --> 02:20:08,240
in a movie it's not sounds

3479
02:20:12,469 --> 02:20:10,640
like he was influenced by anything it

3480
02:20:15,270 --> 02:20:12,479
was a singular thing i'd never heard

3481
02:20:17,270 --> 02:20:15,280
anything like it and it changed his life

3482
02:20:19,110 --> 02:20:17,280
and in a weird way it's kind of ironic

3483
02:20:22,710 --> 02:20:19,120
and it changed mine

3484
02:20:24,550 --> 02:20:22,720
but uh that is an experience anomaly so

3485
02:20:25,429 --> 02:20:24,560
we're going to get some stuff posted up

3486
02:20:30,389 --> 02:20:25,439
uh

3487
02:20:31,830 --> 02:20:30,399
anomalies i do want to hear everybody's

3488
02:20:34,230 --> 02:20:31,840
story yes

3489
02:20:35,429 --> 02:20:34,240
and and and post it i will respond i

3490
02:20:37,910 --> 02:20:35,439
want to know

3491
02:20:40,630 --> 02:20:37,920
i do okay all right uh i'm going to take

3492
02:20:42,870 --> 02:20:40,640
another break now i do uh have a couple

3493
02:20:44,710 --> 02:20:42,880
of things that i've got to talk about

3494
02:20:45,510 --> 02:20:44,720
that are uh

3495
02:20:47,750 --> 02:20:45,520
uh

3496
02:20:49,670 --> 02:20:47,760
that are in the news and we will get to

3497
02:20:53,429 --> 02:20:49,680
that stuff when i come back after the

3498
02:20:55,030 --> 02:20:53,439
break but i want to talk about

3499
02:20:57,270 --> 02:20:55,040
bitcoin

3500
02:20:59,190 --> 02:20:57,280
and if you haven't

3501
02:21:00,710 --> 02:20:59,200
heard about bitcoin

3502
02:21:02,870 --> 02:21:00,720
we're gonna have a little bitcoin

3503
02:21:06,070 --> 02:21:02,880
conversation when we come back this is

3504
02:21:09,590 --> 02:21:06,080
fade to black i'm your host jimmy church

3505
02:21:11,190 --> 02:21:09,600
on the dark matter radio network

3506
02:21:13,510 --> 02:21:11,200
we'll be back right after this three two

3507
02:21:27,990 --> 02:21:13,520
three eight two five fifty forty five

3508
02:21:37,590 --> 02:21:30,469
despite popular opinion

3509
02:21:43,030 --> 02:21:40,710
on the dark matter radio network

3510
02:21:45,110 --> 02:21:43,040
he's always giving it to you straight

3511
02:22:01,910 --> 02:21:45,120
jimmychurchradio.com

3512
02:22:01,920 --> 02:22:07,030
this is kjcr

3513
02:22:07,040 --> 02:22:22,790
dark matter jimmychurchradio.com network

3514
02:22:27,590 --> 02:22:24,630
all right everybody welcome back kjcr

3515
02:22:31,110 --> 02:22:27,600
this is fade to black

3516
02:22:35,590 --> 02:22:33,429
on the dark matter radio network sitting

3517
02:22:37,990 --> 02:22:35,600
in for our bell that's right while we're

3518
02:22:40,070 --> 02:22:38,000
waiting for art's return

3519
02:22:42,389 --> 02:22:40,080
you know it just makes you wonder i hope

3520
02:22:44,309 --> 02:22:42,399
art is listening right now dude what is

3521
02:22:47,990 --> 02:22:44,319
going on man when you're coming back i

3522
02:22:51,030 --> 02:22:48,000
get asked all day long

3523
02:22:52,790 --> 02:22:51,040
email phone calls when is he coming back

3524
02:22:56,309 --> 02:22:52,800
and i you know i'm starting to take it

3525
02:22:59,349 --> 02:22:58,230
all right

3526
02:23:00,950 --> 02:22:59,359
shoot me an email to me at

3527
02:23:02,389 --> 02:23:00,960
jimmychurchradio.com i got a bunch of

3528
02:23:04,710 --> 02:23:02,399
stuff that has come in i'm going to try

3529
02:23:06,950 --> 02:23:04,720
to get to it but uh we only have a

3530
02:23:11,590 --> 02:23:06,960
little bit of time left and i needed to

3531
02:23:14,150 --> 02:23:11,600
get in a conversation about bitcoin

3532
02:23:17,830 --> 02:23:14,160
and if you're not familiar

3533
02:23:20,790 --> 02:23:17,840
with what bitcoin is

3534
02:23:25,110 --> 02:23:20,800
you know first off sit down

3535
02:23:26,630 --> 02:23:25,120
get your drink and and listen to this

3536
02:23:27,510 --> 02:23:26,640
bitcoin

3537
02:23:28,309 --> 02:23:27,520
is

3538
02:23:30,710 --> 02:23:28,319
uh

3539
02:23:32,550 --> 02:23:30,720
is a new commodity

3540
02:23:34,309 --> 02:23:32,560
it's a new uh

3541
02:23:37,349 --> 02:23:34,319
uh payment

3542
02:23:38,309 --> 02:23:37,359
uh method it's decentralized

3543
02:23:39,830 --> 02:23:38,319
uh

3544
02:23:41,270 --> 02:23:39,840
for

3545
02:23:43,429 --> 02:23:41,280
electronic

3546
02:23:46,870 --> 02:23:43,439
uh payment

3547
02:23:51,270 --> 02:23:46,880
now bitcoin

3548
02:23:57,110 --> 02:23:52,790
bitcoin

3549
02:23:59,670 --> 02:23:57,120
is a way to pay for stuff and possibly

3550
02:24:01,030 --> 02:23:59,680
well the the transactions are and this

3551
02:24:04,230 --> 02:24:01,040
is where i'm just going to start

3552
02:24:06,070 --> 02:24:04,240
spitting out some of the facts

3553
02:24:07,830 --> 02:24:06,080
it's uh it's something that can't be

3554
02:24:09,030 --> 02:24:07,840
refunded

3555
02:24:11,429 --> 02:24:09,040
okay

3556
02:24:13,030 --> 02:24:11,439
it it can't be

3557
02:24:14,469 --> 02:24:13,040
it can't be

3558
02:24:16,950 --> 02:24:14,479
counterfeited

3559
02:24:18,710 --> 02:24:16,960
apparently which that's i'm gonna talk

3560
02:24:20,550 --> 02:24:18,720
about that in a second

3561
02:24:22,550 --> 02:24:20,560
and it exists

3562
02:24:24,550 --> 02:24:22,560
on your

3563
02:24:27,270 --> 02:24:24,560
computer

3564
02:24:29,190 --> 02:24:27,280
it doesn't exist in your pocket

3565
02:24:31,190 --> 02:24:29,200
and if you've ever had now let's say

3566
02:24:32,630 --> 02:24:31,200
you've got a bitcoin and what's the

3567
02:24:34,349 --> 02:24:32,640
value of it we'll get to that in a

3568
02:24:36,710 --> 02:24:34,359
second today it's

3569
02:24:39,670 --> 02:24:36,720
818.1 bitcoin

3570
02:24:42,469 --> 02:24:39,680
talk about that in a minute as well

3571
02:24:47,349 --> 02:24:42,479
bitcoin exist on your computer and if

3572
02:24:52,790 --> 02:24:50,710
and your information is lost

3573
02:24:56,950 --> 02:24:52,800
then that is the same thing if you have

3574
02:25:00,150 --> 02:24:56,960
bitcoin or bitcoins on your computer

3575
02:25:01,270 --> 02:25:00,160
computer goes down crashes gone burn

3576
02:25:03,990 --> 02:25:01,280
whatever

3577
02:25:06,950 --> 02:25:04,000
then you lose your bitcoins

3578
02:25:08,469 --> 02:25:06,960
so before you say to yourself

3579
02:25:10,469 --> 02:25:08,479
well that's not right you should be able

3580
02:25:12,389 --> 02:25:10,479
to back it up you should have it on a

3581
02:25:16,389 --> 02:25:12,399
you should have it somewhere no if you

3582
02:25:21,429 --> 02:25:18,790
you're walking around and you've got 10

3583
02:25:25,349 --> 02:25:21,439
100 bills in your wallet and you lose

3584
02:25:27,750 --> 02:25:25,359
your wallet you lose that cash

3585
02:25:30,389 --> 02:25:27,760
it's the same thing

3586
02:25:33,030 --> 02:25:30,399
i find it disturbing that it can only

3587
02:25:36,150 --> 02:25:33,040
exist on it so but if your wallet gets

3588
02:25:38,070 --> 02:25:36,160
stolen you lose it it burns up in a fire

3589
02:25:38,950 --> 02:25:38,080
and the cash is in there or in your

3590
02:25:39,750 --> 02:25:38,960
license

3591
02:25:42,710 --> 02:25:39,760
but

3592
02:25:47,429 --> 02:25:42,720
you lose it it's gone

3593
02:25:50,950 --> 02:25:47,439
so in those terms as as intrinsic as a

3594
02:25:52,550 --> 02:25:50,960
bitcoin seems because

3595
02:25:56,230 --> 02:25:52,560
it's not like

3596
02:25:58,870 --> 02:25:56,240
dollar bills and it's certainly not even

3597
02:26:01,750 --> 02:25:58,880
like a credit card it's not

3598
02:26:03,349 --> 02:26:01,760
it exists as ones and zeros on your hard

3599
02:26:05,830 --> 02:26:03,359
drive

3600
02:26:07,750 --> 02:26:05,840
so you can't touch a bitcoin you can see

3601
02:26:10,710 --> 02:26:07,760
it on your computer screen you know that

3602
02:26:12,790 --> 02:26:10,720
you've got it if it's on your hard drive

3603
02:26:16,790 --> 02:26:12,800
and you can account for it but that's

3604
02:26:21,990 --> 02:26:18,710
that's a bitcoin

3605
02:26:23,110 --> 02:26:22,000
what is the value of a bitcoin

3606
02:26:25,429 --> 02:26:23,120
there's

3607
02:26:28,309 --> 02:26:25,439
um

3608
02:26:31,510 --> 02:26:28,319
and as much as research as i have done

3609
02:26:34,870 --> 02:26:31,520
on this over the last month because i am

3610
02:26:37,670 --> 02:26:34,880
fascinated with this

3611
02:26:39,670 --> 02:26:37,680
um apparently there's uh bitcoins have

3612
02:26:42,389 --> 02:26:39,680
already been manufactured that's it and

3613
02:26:44,950 --> 02:26:42,399
there aren't going to be any more please

3614
02:26:47,670 --> 02:26:44,960
send me an email and answer if there's

3615
02:26:49,270 --> 02:26:47,680
any more information about that

3616
02:26:51,510 --> 02:26:49,280
that i need to know

3617
02:26:53,429 --> 02:26:51,520
but apparently and i forget the number

3618
02:26:55,349 --> 02:26:53,439
it doesn't matter 21 million or or

3619
02:26:56,550 --> 02:26:55,359
whatever there's only so many bitcoins

3620
02:26:58,070 --> 02:26:56,560
out there

3621
02:27:00,550 --> 02:26:58,080
is uh

3622
02:27:02,630 --> 02:27:00,560
the value of a bitcoin today i looked it

3623
02:27:04,309 --> 02:27:02,640
up before the show i wanted to get

3624
02:27:07,110 --> 02:27:04,319
accurate as eight eight hundred and

3625
02:27:09,590 --> 02:27:07,120
eighteen dollars and forty one cents

3626
02:27:14,150 --> 02:27:09,600
one bitcoin

3627
02:27:14,950 --> 02:27:14,160
one dollar

3628
02:27:18,950 --> 02:27:14,960
now

3629
02:27:19,910 --> 02:27:18,960
you heard the story and if not of uh

3630
02:27:25,510 --> 02:27:19,920
uh

3631
02:27:28,950 --> 02:27:27,190
which was a website where you could

3632
02:27:31,429 --> 02:27:28,960
apparently go

3633
02:27:33,270 --> 02:27:31,439
and not apparently you could

3634
02:27:34,309 --> 02:27:33,280
uh go

3635
02:27:38,710 --> 02:27:34,319
find

3636
02:27:41,190 --> 02:27:38,720
uh

3637
02:27:42,389 --> 02:27:41,200
you know your ex-wife

3638
02:27:51,670 --> 02:27:42,399
you could

3639
02:27:53,429 --> 02:27:51,680
uh that is normally ill not to say that

3640
02:27:55,030 --> 02:27:53,439
there's probably legal transactions

3641
02:27:56,710 --> 02:27:55,040
there too as well other goods and

3642
02:27:58,710 --> 02:27:56,720
services but all the

3643
02:28:00,469 --> 02:27:58,720
really hard to find stuff that you just

3644
02:28:03,270 --> 02:28:00,479
can't get at walmart

3645
02:28:05,750 --> 02:28:03,280
like you know silencers for your uh nine

3646
02:28:08,550 --> 02:28:05,760
millimeter you could go and purchase

3647
02:28:09,590 --> 02:28:08,560
with bitcoins

3648
02:28:11,349 --> 02:28:09,600
on

3649
02:28:13,349 --> 02:28:11,359
uh the web

3650
02:28:14,630 --> 02:28:13,359
and the

3651
02:28:22,230 --> 02:28:14,640
the

3652
02:28:24,389 --> 02:28:22,240
uh about bitcoin is it's untraceable and

3653
02:28:26,070 --> 02:28:24,399
well you know the feds you know it's all

3654
02:28:28,230 --> 02:28:26,080
discrete and you can do these

3655
02:28:30,230 --> 02:28:28,240
transactions you can go buy your heroin

3656
02:28:32,630 --> 02:28:30,240
or you can go buy your

3657
02:28:35,190 --> 02:28:32,640
your your guns or your murder for hire

3658
02:28:37,030 --> 02:28:35,200
and use bitcoins for these transactions

3659
02:28:38,870 --> 02:28:37,040
well

3660
02:28:40,870 --> 02:28:38,880
the feds uh

3661
02:28:43,670 --> 02:28:40,880
certainly prove that

3662
02:28:45,590 --> 02:28:43,680
theory that urban legend as incorrect

3663
02:28:49,670 --> 02:28:45,600
when they shut down

3664
02:28:51,590 --> 02:28:49,680
uh the website and arrested the

3665
02:28:53,349 --> 02:28:51,600
the owner of the website but he did he

3666
02:28:55,190 --> 02:28:53,359
did get away with it for a few years

3667
02:28:57,750 --> 02:28:55,200
there's there's no doubt about that but

3668
02:29:00,150 --> 02:28:57,760
this is what it wasn't that part of the

3669
02:29:03,110 --> 02:29:00,160
story that i found fascinating

3670
02:29:06,550 --> 02:29:03,120
it was the bitcoins

3671
02:29:07,270 --> 02:29:06,560
and his net worth and how much this was

3672
02:29:08,550 --> 02:29:07,280
like

3673
02:29:09,830 --> 02:29:08,560
they they caught him with how many

3674
02:29:12,630 --> 02:29:09,840
bitcoins

3675
02:29:14,950 --> 02:29:12,640
and how much is it worth what what did

3676
02:29:17,110 --> 02:29:14,960
you know somebody explained i had heard

3677
02:29:18,710 --> 02:29:17,120
about this bitcoin thing but i just

3678
02:29:19,830 --> 02:29:18,720
didn't think

3679
02:29:22,790 --> 02:29:19,840
that uh

3680
02:29:24,950 --> 02:29:22,800
it had caught on or or not not that it

3681
02:29:27,110 --> 02:29:24,960
hadn't caught on but that that that

3682
02:29:29,590 --> 02:29:27,120
there was any worth to it

3683
02:29:32,230 --> 02:29:29,600
that you could actually uh

3684
02:29:34,630 --> 02:29:32,240
put a monetary value on it and that

3685
02:29:37,349 --> 02:29:34,640
there was people interested in these

3686
02:29:40,150 --> 02:29:37,359
bitcoins like this

3687
02:29:41,670 --> 02:29:40,160
how and it existed on his laptop by the

3688
02:29:42,550 --> 02:29:41,680
way so

3689
02:29:45,510 --> 02:29:42,560
but

3690
02:29:47,830 --> 02:29:45,520
the bitcoin worth and the reason why i'm

3691
02:29:49,190 --> 02:29:47,840
uh tell that story is because we're

3692
02:29:51,429 --> 02:29:49,200
talking about

3693
02:29:55,190 --> 02:29:51,439
this guy's worth was you know in the

3694
02:29:57,830 --> 02:29:55,200
hundreds of millions of dollars

3695
02:30:00,070 --> 02:29:57,840
okay and again um

3696
02:30:02,070 --> 02:30:00,080
the aspects to the story and what

3697
02:30:05,270 --> 02:30:02,080
bitcoins were worth on one day and what

3698
02:30:09,190 --> 02:30:05,280
it's worth another means

3699
02:30:11,910 --> 02:30:09,200
that his potential worth was either zero

3700
02:30:15,270 --> 02:30:11,920
because what is a bitcoin worth

3701
02:30:17,429 --> 02:30:15,280
to a billion dollars

3702
02:30:18,469 --> 02:30:17,439
bitcoins have

3703
02:30:20,230 --> 02:30:18,479
changed

3704
02:30:24,550 --> 02:30:20,240
directions uh

3705
02:30:28,710 --> 02:30:26,870
let me be perfectly clear today it's

3706
02:30:30,710 --> 02:30:28,720
worth eight hundred and eighteen dollars

3707
02:30:32,389 --> 02:30:30,720
i believe

3708
02:30:34,790 --> 02:30:32,399
even as

3709
02:30:37,670 --> 02:30:34,800
early as last week it it could have been

3710
02:30:40,389 --> 02:30:37,680
worth uh eighteen hundred dollars two

3711
02:30:43,349 --> 02:30:40,399
years ago forty dollars

3712
02:30:45,429 --> 02:30:43,359
a year ago twenty dollars it's had these

3713
02:30:46,950 --> 02:30:45,439
violent swings

3714
02:30:49,110 --> 02:30:46,960
up and so

3715
02:30:50,870 --> 02:30:49,120
you know and i know what you're uh

3716
02:30:52,710 --> 02:30:50,880
thinking right now the same thoughts

3717
02:30:54,389 --> 02:30:52,720
that i am which is

3718
02:30:56,309 --> 02:30:54,399
wow man i should have bought bitcoin

3719
02:30:57,990 --> 02:30:56,319
when it was worth a buck

3720
02:30:59,030 --> 02:30:58,000
because now it's worth eighteen hundred

3721
02:31:01,750 --> 02:30:59,040
dollars

3722
02:31:03,750 --> 02:31:01,760
jimmy just said it was worth 818

3723
02:31:06,710 --> 02:31:03,760
today that isn't a well you know what

3724
02:31:08,389 --> 02:31:06,720
but tomorrow it could be worth nothing

3725
02:31:12,070 --> 02:31:08,399
again

3726
02:31:15,590 --> 02:31:12,080
it has had these swings back and forth

3727
02:31:16,630 --> 02:31:15,600
i don't think you can consider a bitcoin

3728
02:31:19,510 --> 02:31:16,640
um

3729
02:31:21,510 --> 02:31:19,520
uh what's the word uh an investment a

3730
02:31:22,950 --> 02:31:21,520
safe investment like gold i'm not

3731
02:31:25,190 --> 02:31:22,960
suggesting that

3732
02:31:27,349 --> 02:31:25,200
but what makes it worth

3733
02:31:30,710 --> 02:31:27,359
eighteen hundred dollars or eight

3734
02:31:34,190 --> 02:31:30,720
dollars or anything dollars

3735
02:31:35,910 --> 02:31:34,200
it is a very very confusing

3736
02:31:37,270 --> 02:31:35,920
confusing

3737
02:31:38,230 --> 02:31:37,280
technology

3738
02:31:40,469 --> 02:31:38,240
now

3739
02:31:41,750 --> 02:31:40,479
okay so let me get to some more facts

3740
02:31:43,750 --> 02:31:41,760
here

3741
02:31:46,550 --> 02:31:43,760
bitcoin is pretty much like cash on the

3742
02:31:47,270 --> 02:31:46,560
internet that's the best way to look at

3743
02:31:51,110 --> 02:31:47,280
it

3744
02:31:53,750 --> 02:31:51,120
uh

3745
02:31:57,030 --> 02:31:53,760
be used for bookkeeping

3746
02:31:59,750 --> 02:31:57,040
um there's there's that aspect of it

3747
02:32:02,630 --> 02:31:59,760
um it was uh and you know some people

3748
02:32:04,389 --> 02:32:02,640
call it cryptocurrency uh i was trying

3749
02:32:06,309 --> 02:32:04,399
to remember that term

3750
02:32:10,469 --> 02:32:06,319
uh cryptocurrency

3751
02:32:11,830 --> 02:32:10,479
and it was first described in 1998 by

3752
02:32:13,990 --> 02:32:11,840
weidai

3753
02:32:15,910 --> 02:32:14,000
on the cyberpunk's mailing list and he

3754
02:32:16,950 --> 02:32:15,920
suggested that the idea of a new form of

3755
02:32:20,309 --> 02:32:16,960
money

3756
02:32:22,790 --> 02:32:20,319
uh that could be used um

3757
02:32:25,830 --> 02:32:22,800
cryptically to control

3758
02:32:26,870 --> 02:32:25,840
uh transactions and

3759
02:32:28,950 --> 02:32:26,880
and

3760
02:32:32,389 --> 02:32:28,960
uh replace

3761
02:32:34,630 --> 02:32:32,399
you know the fed uh re replace uh the

3762
02:32:37,349 --> 02:32:34,640
the federal reserve or any other central

3763
02:32:39,429 --> 02:32:37,359
currency or the euro

3764
02:32:42,710 --> 02:32:39,439
and get away from that and they could

3765
02:32:45,750 --> 02:32:42,720
have something that just

3766
02:32:48,070 --> 02:32:45,760
could not be counterfeited and also not

3767
02:32:51,590 --> 02:32:48,080
controlled by central governments

3768
02:32:52,710 --> 02:32:51,600
well um in 2009

3769
02:32:57,349 --> 02:32:52,720
um

3770
02:32:59,830 --> 02:32:57,359
satoshi nakamoto uh created the actual

3771
02:33:02,070 --> 02:32:59,840
bitcoin concept and the proof of concept

3772
02:33:02,950 --> 02:33:02,080
and the specification that went behind

3773
02:33:04,830 --> 02:33:02,960
it

3774
02:33:08,710 --> 02:33:04,840
and

3775
02:33:11,990 --> 02:33:08,720
so it's like an open source um how do i

3776
02:33:14,550 --> 02:33:12,000
say this um uh it's it's it's it can be

3777
02:33:17,429 --> 02:33:14,560
modified if you are if you are really

3778
02:33:18,870 --> 02:33:17,439
good at uh at code writing and

3779
02:33:20,950 --> 02:33:18,880
engineering

3780
02:33:22,710 --> 02:33:20,960
then you can actually modify the bitcoin

3781
02:33:25,270 --> 02:33:22,720
yourself too as well

3782
02:33:26,710 --> 02:33:25,280
and uh now this is where

3783
02:33:28,870 --> 02:33:26,720
for me

3784
02:33:31,830 --> 02:33:28,880
and i need i need everybody to wrap

3785
02:33:33,830 --> 02:33:31,840
their head around this for a second

3786
02:33:36,469 --> 02:33:33,840
i would think

3787
02:33:39,270 --> 02:33:36,479
if you have

3788
02:33:47,030 --> 02:33:39,280
networks

3789
02:33:49,910 --> 02:33:47,040
firewalls that are cracked and worms and

3790
02:33:52,870 --> 02:33:49,920
viruses that you know and and credit

3791
02:33:53,910 --> 02:33:52,880
card information and all of that

3792
02:33:56,389 --> 02:33:53,920
uh

3793
02:33:59,510 --> 02:33:56,399
cryptography that is broken

3794
02:34:02,309 --> 02:33:59,520
all of that just insane amount of code

3795
02:34:03,750 --> 02:34:02,319
breaking that is is is eventually

3796
02:34:07,030 --> 02:34:03,760
cracked

3797
02:34:09,270 --> 02:34:07,040
then why can't bitcoins which are not a

3798
02:34:11,349 --> 02:34:09,280
physical thing it's just ones and zeros

3799
02:34:12,469 --> 02:34:11,359
how is this

3800
02:34:16,790 --> 02:34:12,479
not

3801
02:34:19,510 --> 02:34:16,800
duplicatable

3802
02:34:21,349 --> 02:34:19,520
i don't understand it i really don't now

3803
02:34:23,590 --> 02:34:21,359
i have read

3804
02:34:26,950 --> 02:34:23,600
over and over and over and over and seen

3805
02:34:29,670 --> 02:34:26,960
videos and news programming on this that

3806
02:34:31,910 --> 02:34:29,680
it is a crack proof

3807
02:34:35,670 --> 02:34:31,920
it's counterfeit proof and i just don't

3808
02:34:38,070 --> 02:34:35,680
understand how it could be i don't

3809
02:34:40,070 --> 02:34:38,080
they say this and i hear this over and

3810
02:34:42,150 --> 02:34:40,080
over again but it's not

3811
02:34:44,230 --> 02:34:42,160
uh something that i it doesn't make

3812
02:34:45,910 --> 02:34:44,240
sense because ones and zeros on a hard

3813
02:34:47,750 --> 02:34:45,920
drive are ones and zeros on a hard drive

3814
02:34:50,469 --> 02:34:47,760
and a bitcoin is nothing more than that

3815
02:34:51,990 --> 02:34:50,479
so how can that not be

3816
02:34:55,190 --> 02:34:52,000
duplicated

3817
02:34:57,910 --> 02:34:55,200
what is a bitcoin

3818
02:34:59,910 --> 02:34:57,920
doesn't make any sense now who controls

3819
02:35:01,510 --> 02:34:59,920
who controls bitcoin if it's not the

3820
02:35:02,950 --> 02:35:01,520
feds

3821
02:35:07,429 --> 02:35:02,960
okay well

3822
02:35:10,150 --> 02:35:07,439
nobody owns the bitcoin network

3823
02:35:12,150 --> 02:35:10,160
like nobody owns

3824
02:35:14,309 --> 02:35:12,160
email

3825
02:35:17,030 --> 02:35:14,319
nobody owns

3826
02:35:19,190 --> 02:35:17,040
the internet you know it's a it's a

3827
02:35:20,230 --> 02:35:19,200
untouchable thing you can't physically

3828
02:35:23,910 --> 02:35:20,240
nobody

3829
02:35:25,510 --> 02:35:23,920
controls that and the bitcoin is just

3830
02:35:28,389 --> 02:35:25,520
such a thing

3831
02:35:29,590 --> 02:35:28,399
okay um you can't

3832
02:35:32,550 --> 02:35:29,600
um

3833
02:35:34,710 --> 02:35:32,560
uh you can't force there isn't uh a

3834
02:35:37,030 --> 02:35:34,720
governing body behind bitcoin it's like

3835
02:35:38,150 --> 02:35:37,040
an open source

3836
02:35:39,590 --> 02:35:38,160
code

3837
02:35:40,389 --> 02:35:39,600
so

3838
02:35:42,870 --> 02:35:40,399
you

3839
02:35:45,110 --> 02:35:42,880
nobody can how do i say nobody can

3840
02:35:47,110 --> 02:35:45,120
regulate it but everybody can regulate

3841
02:35:48,790 --> 02:35:47,120
it at the same time

3842
02:35:52,150 --> 02:35:48,800
um the

3843
02:35:53,830 --> 02:35:52,160
the protocol is open to all users and

3844
02:35:54,950 --> 02:35:53,840
you're free to choose what software and

3845
02:35:56,389 --> 02:35:54,960
version

3846
02:35:59,910 --> 02:35:56,399
that you use

3847
02:36:01,910 --> 02:35:59,920
um in order to stay compatible all users

3848
02:36:03,990 --> 02:36:01,920
uh just need to use software complying

3849
02:36:05,830 --> 02:36:04,000
with the same rules

3850
02:36:08,230 --> 02:36:05,840
and and that's

3851
02:36:10,790 --> 02:36:08,240
that's the

3852
02:36:13,429 --> 02:36:10,800
the same idea behind email and the same

3853
02:36:15,910 --> 02:36:13,439
idea behind the internet it's this uh

3854
02:36:17,990 --> 02:36:15,920
like linux too as well it's the same

3855
02:36:20,469 --> 02:36:18,000
type of principle here

3856
02:36:22,630 --> 02:36:20,479
so it doesn't for me

3857
02:36:26,150 --> 02:36:22,640
if everybody is involved with it and you

3858
02:36:27,990 --> 02:36:26,160
can modify it how can it not be

3859
02:36:31,750 --> 02:36:28,000
counterfeited

3860
02:36:34,790 --> 02:36:31,760
and how can um uh uh you know there's

3861
02:36:38,389 --> 02:36:34,800
only so many uh bitcoins out there that

3862
02:36:40,790 --> 02:36:38,399
have supposedly been manufactured

3863
02:36:43,270 --> 02:36:40,800
um so but how can it not be

3864
02:36:45,030 --> 02:36:43,280
counterfeited is each one accounted for

3865
02:36:47,670 --> 02:36:45,040
is there some type of

3866
02:36:49,590 --> 02:36:47,680
of a crypto serial number that is

3867
02:36:51,510 --> 02:36:49,600
involved with it so you know that is

3868
02:36:53,190 --> 02:36:51,520
it's existing on somebody's computer and

3869
02:36:56,309 --> 02:36:53,200
that's how it's accounted for

3870
02:36:58,790 --> 02:36:56,319
it is very strange now how does it work

3871
02:37:01,110 --> 02:36:58,800
well i had mentioned earlier

3872
02:37:03,110 --> 02:37:01,120
and again i'm sounding like a brainiac

3873
02:37:05,750 --> 02:37:03,120
like i know what i'm talking about i'm

3874
02:37:07,910 --> 02:37:05,760
just fascinated with this and it's that

3875
02:37:09,590 --> 02:37:07,920
i think this is the future

3876
02:37:11,030 --> 02:37:09,600
and this is something that we all need

3877
02:37:13,910 --> 02:37:11,040
to know about

3878
02:37:16,870 --> 02:37:13,920
and i have done an awful lot of reading

3879
02:37:19,910 --> 02:37:16,880
it is just something that uh i am

3880
02:37:21,910 --> 02:37:19,920
totally 100 fascinated with and this is

3881
02:37:25,590 --> 02:37:21,920
technology this is today this is what's

3882
02:37:27,830 --> 02:37:25,600
going on and this is important to you

3883
02:37:30,710 --> 02:37:27,840
now how does the bitcoin work

3884
02:37:31,670 --> 02:37:30,720
well um it's uh

3885
02:37:32,710 --> 02:37:31,680
uh

3886
02:37:35,670 --> 02:37:32,720
there's

3887
02:37:38,950 --> 02:37:35,680
it's a mobile app or a computer program

3888
02:37:41,190 --> 02:37:38,960
that provides a personal bitcoin and i'm

3889
02:37:44,309 --> 02:37:41,200
using my the quotation

3890
02:37:46,389 --> 02:37:44,319
marks with my fingers right now a wallet

3891
02:37:48,550 --> 02:37:46,399
that allows a user to send and receive

3892
02:37:51,990 --> 02:37:48,560
bitcoins okay

3893
02:37:53,830 --> 02:37:52,000
and that's how it works for most users

3894
02:37:55,910 --> 02:37:53,840
you've got an electronic wallet sits on

3895
02:37:58,389 --> 02:37:55,920
your computer and you've got bitcoins

3896
02:38:01,349 --> 02:37:58,399
going in and out of it and when you need

3897
02:38:03,510 --> 02:38:01,359
to buy something a bitcoin is taken out

3898
02:38:07,190 --> 02:38:03,520
and given to something as somebody else

3899
02:38:09,990 --> 02:38:07,200
once that transaction happens

3900
02:38:12,469 --> 02:38:10,000
it's final

3901
02:38:14,790 --> 02:38:12,479
you can't return

3902
02:38:17,030 --> 02:38:14,800
the goods like you can with a credit

3903
02:38:20,030 --> 02:38:17,040
card going to a store or

3904
02:38:22,309 --> 02:38:20,040
sending something back to amazon.com or

3905
02:38:24,070 --> 02:38:22,319
overstock.com and the shoes didn't fit

3906
02:38:27,110 --> 02:38:24,080
and you want the money back it doesn't

3907
02:38:28,389 --> 02:38:27,120
work that way and you can't cancel a

3908
02:38:29,670 --> 02:38:28,399
transaction

3909
02:38:32,230 --> 02:38:29,680
either

3910
02:38:33,270 --> 02:38:32,240
you're in dispute with uh

3911
02:38:35,030 --> 02:38:33,280
uh

3912
02:38:36,710 --> 02:38:35,040
something or somebody you've made a

3913
02:38:39,990 --> 02:38:36,720
transaction and

3914
02:38:41,830 --> 02:38:40,000
uh the the product broke uh as soon as

3915
02:38:43,349 --> 02:38:41,840
you got it home and you call the credit

3916
02:38:45,990 --> 02:38:43,359
card company and you cancel the

3917
02:38:48,070 --> 02:38:46,000
transaction they won't take the

3918
02:38:49,510 --> 02:38:48,080
the the product back they said you used

3919
02:38:51,750 --> 02:38:49,520
it you're telling them that you didn't

3920
02:38:54,550 --> 02:38:51,760
use it it was broken out of the box and

3921
02:38:56,389 --> 02:38:54,560
you're in a dispute well you just cancel

3922
02:38:59,349 --> 02:38:56,399
your credit card transaction

3923
02:39:02,469 --> 02:38:59,359
that's that's not the case with bitcoin

3924
02:39:04,389 --> 02:39:02,479
all sales are final and you can't get it

3925
02:39:06,230 --> 02:39:04,399
back if you want it back

3926
02:39:08,150 --> 02:39:06,240
you need to trust whoever you're doing

3927
02:39:09,190 --> 02:39:08,160
that transaction with

3928
02:39:10,870 --> 02:39:09,200
because

3929
02:39:11,990 --> 02:39:10,880
uh they don't have to give it back if

3930
02:39:13,830 --> 02:39:12,000
they don't want to now if you're working

3931
02:39:16,790 --> 02:39:13,840
with somebody that you understand or

3932
02:39:19,429 --> 02:39:16,800
you're a friend with you you trust

3933
02:39:21,750 --> 02:39:19,439
and there's an issue that arises and

3934
02:39:24,790 --> 02:39:21,760
they want to give you they feel that you

3935
02:39:26,550 --> 02:39:24,800
deserve the bitcoin back that's fine but

3936
02:39:28,550 --> 02:39:26,560
you're not taking somebody to court over

3937
02:39:30,230 --> 02:39:28,560
a bitcoin dispute because you're not

3938
02:39:32,710 --> 02:39:30,240
getting it back if you don't want it

3939
02:39:34,710 --> 02:39:32,720
back and there's nothing you can do

3940
02:39:36,950 --> 02:39:34,720
about it

3941
02:39:40,389 --> 02:39:36,960
one of the most uh

3942
02:39:42,150 --> 02:39:40,399
the crazy aspects of of bitcoins and i

3943
02:39:45,429 --> 02:39:42,160
mentioned this earlier

3944
02:39:49,910 --> 02:39:45,439
is it it exists on a computer there was

3945
02:39:55,750 --> 02:39:52,950
two weeks ago three weeks ago and i will

3946
02:39:57,750 --> 02:39:55,760
uh i will see if i can get it and get it

3947
02:39:59,110 --> 02:39:57,760
posted up on the website

3948
02:40:03,110 --> 02:39:59,120
for you to check out if you didn't hear

3949
02:40:07,590 --> 02:40:04,469
uh

3950
02:40:11,349 --> 02:40:07,600
a guy threw a computer away somehow it

3951
02:40:15,190 --> 02:40:11,359
ended up in the local dump

3952
02:40:18,550 --> 02:40:15,200
and on this computer was a substantial

3953
02:40:21,910 --> 02:40:18,560
amount of bitcoins

3954
02:40:24,550 --> 02:40:21,920
and if he didn't get the computer back

3955
02:40:27,510 --> 02:40:24,560
the bitcoins were gone i can't remember

3956
02:40:29,670 --> 02:40:27,520
the exact amount but it was a lot

3957
02:40:30,870 --> 02:40:29,680
a few thousand

3958
02:40:34,389 --> 02:40:30,880
bitcoins

3959
02:40:36,550 --> 02:40:34,399
and if bitcoin is worth 818

3960
02:40:41,429 --> 02:40:36,560
today you do the math

3961
02:40:46,790 --> 02:40:43,190
that's right

3962
02:40:51,349 --> 02:40:48,870
he found the computer

3963
02:40:55,030 --> 02:40:51,359
he got his bitcoins back

3964
02:40:57,190 --> 02:40:55,040
but if you lose your wallet

3965
02:40:58,870 --> 02:40:57,200
and there's ten thousand dollars in it

3966
02:41:00,790 --> 02:40:58,880
you're going to go look for that wallet

3967
02:41:02,870 --> 02:41:00,800
everywhere until you get that wallet

3968
02:41:04,790 --> 02:41:02,880
back you're just not gonna go okay well

3969
02:41:06,309 --> 02:41:04,800
whatever bitcoins are on it

3970
02:41:07,910 --> 02:41:06,319
leave it in the trash i'll never know

3971
02:41:09,990 --> 02:41:07,920
you're gonna go look for it

3972
02:41:12,070 --> 02:41:10,000
because it's the exact same thing there

3973
02:41:15,110 --> 02:41:12,080
is no difference

3974
02:41:16,710 --> 02:41:15,120
bitcoin sit in an electronic wallet on

3975
02:41:18,230 --> 02:41:16,720
your hard drive

3976
02:41:20,630 --> 02:41:18,240
that's where they exist lose the

3977
02:41:23,030 --> 02:41:20,640
computer computer crashes hard drive

3978
02:41:25,590 --> 02:41:23,040
goes down computer catches on fire house

3979
02:41:28,790 --> 02:41:25,600
catches on fire you don't have a backup

3980
02:41:31,110 --> 02:41:28,800
of your bitcoins they exist in your

3981
02:41:34,070 --> 02:41:31,120
software with the electronic wallet that

3982
02:41:36,150 --> 02:41:34,080
sits on the hard drive and that's how

3983
02:41:38,309 --> 02:41:36,160
the bitcoin works

3984
02:41:39,670 --> 02:41:38,319
it's um

3985
02:41:41,110 --> 02:41:39,680
it's it's

3986
02:41:44,150 --> 02:41:41,120
it's certainly

3987
02:41:46,710 --> 02:41:44,160
the future it is something that uh i

3988
02:41:48,950 --> 02:41:46,720
think is inevitable

3989
02:41:49,910 --> 02:41:48,960
but uh the question that i have and i

3990
02:41:52,389 --> 02:41:49,920
would just

3991
02:41:53,190 --> 02:41:52,399
i need some some questions answered for

3992
02:41:55,349 --> 02:41:53,200
me

3993
02:41:58,950 --> 02:41:55,359
but i just don't understand how it

3994
02:42:01,110 --> 02:41:58,960
cannot be how it can be so secure

3995
02:42:03,190 --> 02:42:01,120
that the these

3996
02:42:06,309 --> 02:42:03,200
these bold statements are out there that

3997
02:42:09,429 --> 02:42:06,319
it's it's uncracked uncrackable

3998
02:42:11,349 --> 02:42:09,439
the future of money is is obvious

3999
02:42:13,429 --> 02:42:11,359
okay dollars and

4000
02:42:16,150 --> 02:42:13,439
and printed money is as a waste of

4001
02:42:17,990 --> 02:42:16,160
resources and and and the new hundred

4002
02:42:20,469 --> 02:42:18,000
dollar bills are pretty cool by the way

4003
02:42:22,630 --> 02:42:20,479
and i can see that those are

4004
02:42:24,150 --> 02:42:22,640
getting close to being uncounterfeitable

4005
02:42:26,150 --> 02:42:24,160
but they're also

4006
02:42:28,950 --> 02:42:26,160
they're a waste of resources and you

4007
02:42:31,110 --> 02:42:28,960
have to truck that stuff around and

4008
02:42:34,070 --> 02:42:31,120
think about the wasted gas and the

4009
02:42:36,710 --> 02:42:34,080
effort that it goes into printing and

4010
02:42:38,150 --> 02:42:36,720
and everything so you know there there's

4011
02:42:40,790 --> 02:42:38,160
an end to that

4012
02:42:43,670 --> 02:42:40,800
and the uh the fact that everything

4013
02:42:46,710 --> 02:42:43,680
could exist your entire

4014
02:42:48,790 --> 02:42:46,720
uh financial history is on one card and

4015
02:42:51,110 --> 02:42:48,800
that that could be electronically safe

4016
02:42:52,790 --> 02:42:51,120
okay well it kind of makes sense too but

4017
02:42:55,269 --> 02:42:52,800
then you have to look at the flip side

4018
02:42:57,030 --> 02:42:55,279
and giving up the security of

4019
02:42:59,030 --> 02:42:57,040
tangible dollars that you put in your

4020
02:43:01,110 --> 02:42:59,040
pocket or you can stuff underneath your

4021
02:43:04,309 --> 02:43:01,120
your your mattress

4022
02:43:06,309 --> 02:43:04,319
there's a certain security in that

4023
02:43:10,070 --> 02:43:06,319
goal too as well but there's a certain

4024
02:43:11,750 --> 02:43:10,080
security in that knowing that uh

4025
02:43:13,750 --> 02:43:11,760
you know your bank account isn't going

4026
02:43:16,070 --> 02:43:13,760
to get drained one day

4027
02:43:17,590 --> 02:43:16,080
of of all of its money because somebody

4028
02:43:19,110 --> 02:43:17,600
hacked into well you know what if it

4029
02:43:20,830 --> 02:43:19,120
sits underneath your bed and you can

4030
02:43:24,630 --> 02:43:20,840
touch it

4031
02:43:26,870 --> 02:43:24,640
there's a certain uh safety and and

4032
02:43:29,429 --> 02:43:26,880
sensibility for some people and which i

4033
02:43:31,429 --> 02:43:29,439
would understand and do understand but

4034
02:43:33,990 --> 02:43:31,439
to give up all of that

4035
02:43:36,469 --> 02:43:34,000
to something like a bitcoin that

4036
02:43:38,309 --> 02:43:36,479
where the dollar is worth its dollar

4037
02:43:41,830 --> 02:43:38,319
okay it can change and fluctuate

4038
02:43:44,070 --> 02:43:41,840
slightly but having a bitcoin swing from

4039
02:43:46,790 --> 02:43:44,080
a dollar or two dollar to two thousand

4040
02:43:48,710 --> 02:43:46,800
dollars in 24 hours and you don't have

4041
02:43:51,190 --> 02:43:48,720
any control over that

4042
02:43:52,469 --> 02:43:51,200
um is insane to me

4043
02:43:55,510 --> 02:43:52,479
and

4044
02:43:58,070 --> 02:43:55,520
i i just don't i i can't

4045
02:44:00,150 --> 02:43:58,080
without any regulation now

4046
02:44:01,670 --> 02:44:00,160
with the uh we're up against a break

4047
02:44:03,429 --> 02:44:01,680
here that i'm going to take in a second

4048
02:44:05,750 --> 02:44:03,439
but with the

4049
02:44:07,429 --> 02:44:05,760
with this conversation about the bitcoin

4050
02:44:11,030 --> 02:44:07,439
we've got some regulation that's

4051
02:44:12,469 --> 02:44:11,040
happening also with the internet that is

4052
02:44:14,389 --> 02:44:12,479
uh

4053
02:44:16,469 --> 02:44:14,399
very important for all of us in our

4054
02:44:18,870 --> 02:44:16,479
lives right now and

4055
02:44:21,110 --> 02:44:18,880
the freedom that we've had with not only

4056
02:44:22,550 --> 02:44:21,120
email being free

4057
02:44:25,110 --> 02:44:22,560
and uh

4058
02:44:27,349 --> 02:44:25,120
uh the internet being

4059
02:44:29,349 --> 02:44:27,359
fair to everybody and what i mean by

4060
02:44:32,389 --> 02:44:29,359
that is this and this is the bitcoin is

4061
02:44:35,269 --> 02:44:32,399
part of this conversation is this when

4062
02:44:36,710 --> 02:44:35,279
you have uh a guy

4063
02:44:37,590 --> 02:44:36,720
like me

4064
02:44:41,030 --> 02:44:37,600
that

4065
02:44:44,389 --> 02:44:41,040
is on an internet radio network as great

4066
02:44:47,349 --> 02:44:44,399
as dark matter is and as influential as

4067
02:44:49,110 --> 02:44:47,359
dark matter is we have the same

4068
02:44:51,670 --> 02:44:49,120
influence

4069
02:44:53,590 --> 02:44:51,680
and uh as

4070
02:44:54,389 --> 02:44:53,600
a cbs

4071
02:44:58,830 --> 02:44:54,399
or

4072
02:45:02,230 --> 02:44:58,840
anything else we are able to

4073
02:45:03,670 --> 02:45:02,240
uh come on the air every night broadcast

4074
02:45:06,710 --> 02:45:03,680
to you

4075
02:45:08,309 --> 02:45:06,720
have advertisers uh do sophisticated

4076
02:45:11,190 --> 02:45:08,319
programming and guests and everything

4077
02:45:12,230 --> 02:45:11,200
else that everybody but we can do this

4078
02:45:15,990 --> 02:45:12,240
freely

4079
02:45:19,590 --> 02:45:16,000
with the same internet speeds as anybody

4080
02:45:22,230 --> 02:45:19,600
else out there the access to my

4081
02:45:25,269 --> 02:45:22,240
website the access to dark matter radio

4082
02:45:27,590 --> 02:45:25,279
that access to our bell.com is the same

4083
02:45:29,269 --> 02:45:27,600
as amazon.com

4084
02:45:30,309 --> 02:45:29,279
the speeds are the same

4085
02:45:33,349 --> 02:45:30,319
uh the

4086
02:45:34,870 --> 02:45:33,359
one netflix is the one network hog out

4087
02:45:36,710 --> 02:45:34,880
there because of the

4088
02:45:39,190 --> 02:45:36,720
size of the files that are getting

4089
02:45:40,790 --> 02:45:39,200
shipped around but the bandwidth and the

4090
02:45:42,630 --> 02:45:40,800
availability and the speeds of

4091
02:45:44,309 --> 02:45:42,640
everything is equal it's an equal

4092
02:45:46,469 --> 02:45:44,319
playing field

4093
02:45:48,389 --> 02:45:46,479
but right now

4094
02:45:49,750 --> 02:45:48,399
you need to listen to what i am saying

4095
02:45:52,389 --> 02:45:49,760
right now

4096
02:45:55,590 --> 02:45:52,399
the fcc is trying to control or trying

4097
02:45:57,910 --> 02:45:55,600
to rein in control of the internet and

4098
02:46:00,070 --> 02:45:57,920
set regulations and congress is is going

4099
02:46:02,550 --> 02:46:00,080
to vote on this very soon

4100
02:46:05,670 --> 02:46:02,560
but what the internet providers out

4101
02:46:08,070 --> 02:46:05,680
there the verizons the ats

4102
02:46:11,349 --> 02:46:08,080
the internet providers

4103
02:46:12,870 --> 02:46:11,359
time warner they want to be able to

4104
02:46:14,150 --> 02:46:12,880
control

4105
02:46:15,030 --> 02:46:14,160
who

4106
02:46:15,990 --> 02:46:15,040
gets

4107
02:46:18,790 --> 02:46:16,000
what

4108
02:46:20,469 --> 02:46:18,800
when it comes to internet speed

4109
02:46:23,190 --> 02:46:20,479
and charge for it

4110
02:46:25,830 --> 02:46:23,200
oh you want a website that that people

4111
02:46:26,950 --> 02:46:25,840
can view quickly oh you got to pay for

4112
02:46:32,150 --> 02:46:26,960
it

4113
02:46:34,070 --> 02:46:32,160
you want faster download speeds you want

4114
02:46:36,550 --> 02:46:34,080
to be able to uh

4115
02:46:38,950 --> 02:46:36,560
to provide stuff to you you want your

4116
02:46:41,750 --> 02:46:38,960
website to load quickly

4117
02:46:43,990 --> 02:46:41,760
you got to pay for it

4118
02:46:47,830 --> 02:46:44,000
and what that the the the powerful

4119
02:46:50,830 --> 02:46:47,840
suggestion here is the thing that makes

4120
02:46:56,150 --> 02:46:54,630
great is not the content on this show

4121
02:46:58,230 --> 02:46:56,160
that's part of it

4122
02:47:00,070 --> 02:46:58,240
but the fact that this show can even

4123
02:47:02,550 --> 02:47:00,080
exist

4124
02:47:06,150 --> 02:47:02,560
that's what makes it great

4125
02:47:07,670 --> 02:47:06,160
the ability for me to go and compete and

4126
02:47:09,910 --> 02:47:07,680
and for

4127
02:47:11,670 --> 02:47:09,920
for keith and and everybody else that's

4128
02:47:13,190 --> 02:47:11,680
involved with this network to build this

4129
02:47:14,389 --> 02:47:13,200
network

4130
02:47:17,590 --> 02:47:14,399
is

4131
02:47:19,670 --> 02:47:17,600
at an even playing field with anybody

4132
02:47:23,349 --> 02:47:19,680
else that's out there

4133
02:47:24,070 --> 02:47:23,359
on any level we are the same

4134
02:47:28,230 --> 02:47:24,080
but

4135
02:47:30,389 --> 02:47:28,240
if if somebody wants to clamp down on

4136
02:47:31,990 --> 02:47:30,399
this and then turn around and

4137
02:47:34,710 --> 02:47:32,000
and charge us

4138
02:47:37,190 --> 02:47:34,720
uh for the ability for to compete with

4139
02:47:38,150 --> 02:47:37,200
download speeds with somebody else is

4140
02:47:42,230 --> 02:47:38,160
what

4141
02:47:44,790 --> 02:47:42,240
internet was was based on

4142
02:47:46,790 --> 02:47:44,800
the internet was was an open source

4143
02:47:48,389 --> 02:47:46,800
where everything was free and it

4144
02:47:49,750 --> 02:47:48,399
certainly didn't matter

4145
02:47:51,910 --> 02:47:49,760
and listen to what i'm saying this

4146
02:47:54,950 --> 02:47:51,920
didn't matter in the 1990s where every

4147
02:47:56,550 --> 02:47:54,960
it was slow modems and it didn't matter

4148
02:47:59,110 --> 02:47:56,560
and there was no

4149
02:48:00,309 --> 02:47:59,120
live content and streaming video and

4150
02:48:03,910 --> 02:48:00,319
streaming

4151
02:48:05,750 --> 02:48:03,920
audio and and and movies and and and all

4152
02:48:07,830 --> 02:48:05,760
of that all the networks were involved

4153
02:48:09,750 --> 02:48:07,840
no that's not what so it wasn't a big

4154
02:48:12,150 --> 02:48:09,760
deal then nobody cared

4155
02:48:13,269 --> 02:48:12,160
took 15 minutes to download a picture

4156
02:48:16,870 --> 02:48:13,279
and you would have to sit there and

4157
02:48:20,070 --> 02:48:16,880
watch it refreshing your screen forever

4158
02:48:22,710 --> 02:48:20,080
took you overnight to download a song

4159
02:48:24,230 --> 02:48:22,720
if you could find a song to download

4160
02:48:26,150 --> 02:48:24,240
that's not what we're talking about

4161
02:48:28,070 --> 02:48:26,160
today now today we're talking about

4162
02:48:30,790 --> 02:48:28,080
major competition where all of the

4163
02:48:34,309 --> 02:48:30,800
networks are streaming content netflix

4164
02:48:35,429 --> 02:48:34,319
is streaming movies and and so when you

4165
02:48:43,030 --> 02:48:35,439
have

4166
02:48:45,510 --> 02:48:43,040
whoever else where

4167
02:48:48,070 --> 02:48:45,520
youtube is another example you now

4168
02:48:52,230 --> 02:48:48,080
they're youtube has paid videos

4169
02:48:54,070 --> 02:48:52,240
so who gets the bandwidth and who gets

4170
02:48:55,110 --> 02:48:54,080
who gets cheated

4171
02:48:56,469 --> 02:48:55,120
who

4172
02:48:59,830 --> 02:48:56,479
they

4173
02:49:02,469 --> 02:48:59,840
a company like verizon or comcast can

4174
02:49:03,269 --> 02:49:02,479
turn around if they want to offer

4175
02:49:04,710 --> 02:49:03,279
uh

4176
02:49:07,030 --> 02:49:04,720
a streaming

4177
02:49:09,030 --> 02:49:07,040
audio or streaming video or have their

4178
02:49:11,750 --> 02:49:09,040
own radio network or their own movie

4179
02:49:14,790 --> 02:49:11,760
channels can conceivably turn around and

4180
02:49:17,349 --> 02:49:14,800
clamp down on accompanying like netflix

4181
02:49:20,790 --> 02:49:17,359
so it takes forever for netflix videos

4182
02:49:23,030 --> 02:49:20,800
to stream but yet verizon or comcast has

4183
02:49:24,550 --> 02:49:23,040
got immediately immediate download

4184
02:49:26,230 --> 02:49:24,560
speeds

4185
02:49:29,030 --> 02:49:26,240
and that's that the freedom of the

4186
02:49:32,070 --> 02:49:29,040
internet right now is being decided and

4187
02:49:35,910 --> 02:49:32,080
at the at the end of this year

4188
02:49:37,030 --> 02:49:35,920
uh potentially uh the fcc could could

4189
02:49:41,910 --> 02:49:37,040
have

4190
02:49:43,670 --> 02:49:41,920
it could be

4191
02:49:46,070 --> 02:49:43,680
straight down to the service providers

4192
02:49:48,870 --> 02:49:46,080
and how they want to

4193
02:49:51,349 --> 02:49:48,880
charge and provide service to us and

4194
02:49:55,429 --> 02:49:51,359
could conceivably determine

4195
02:49:57,830 --> 02:49:55,439
how and what you hear and see things now

4196
02:50:00,469 --> 02:49:57,840
this isn't an editorial

4197
02:50:03,269 --> 02:50:00,479
um oh it kind of feels like that in a

4198
02:50:04,710 --> 02:50:03,279
late night editorial but it's not that

4199
02:50:07,429 --> 02:50:04,720
but it's something that you need to be

4200
02:50:10,230 --> 02:50:07,439
aware of and the the

4201
02:50:11,830 --> 02:50:10,240
the unwrite regulated internet and email

4202
02:50:15,190 --> 02:50:11,840
was something that we've taken for

4203
02:50:17,510 --> 02:50:15,200
granted up until today and it allows me

4204
02:50:20,630 --> 02:50:17,520
to have an even playing field with

4205
02:50:23,670 --> 02:50:20,640
everybody else but very soon here the

4206
02:50:24,870 --> 02:50:23,680
internet providers are asking for that

4207
02:50:27,349 --> 02:50:24,880
control

4208
02:50:28,550 --> 02:50:27,359
and if you want a faster internet if you

4209
02:50:29,990 --> 02:50:28,560
want something

4210
02:50:32,469 --> 02:50:30,000
different then you're going to pay for

4211
02:50:34,790 --> 02:50:32,479
the deluxe package and if you if you

4212
02:50:36,630 --> 02:50:34,800
don't care and you want slow moving this

4213
02:50:38,710 --> 02:50:36,640
and that then then you're gonna get the

4214
02:50:41,110 --> 02:50:38,720
budget internet

4215
02:50:43,670 --> 02:50:41,120
think about what i am saying it is a

4216
02:50:44,630 --> 02:50:43,680
crazy situation and that's where bitcoin

4217
02:50:47,469 --> 02:50:44,640
comes in

4218
02:50:49,830 --> 02:50:47,479
and and bitcoin is an unregulated

4219
02:50:52,070 --> 02:50:49,840
decentralized situation

4220
02:50:53,429 --> 02:50:52,080
where um

4221
02:50:55,110 --> 02:50:53,439
apparently there's going to be no

4222
02:50:57,830 --> 02:50:55,120
government control

4223
02:51:00,790 --> 02:50:57,840
now to say that the government or

4224
02:51:02,790 --> 02:51:00,800
anybody can't chase down what your

4225
02:51:03,590 --> 02:51:02,800
transactions are on the internet no they

4226
02:51:06,550 --> 02:51:03,600
can't

4227
02:51:07,990 --> 02:51:06,560
and uh bitcoins will be traced there's

4228
02:51:10,630 --> 02:51:08,000
no doubt about that you're not gonna do

4229
02:51:12,150 --> 02:51:10,640
anything that anonymous but uh all right

4230
02:51:15,269 --> 02:51:12,160
so for right now i'm gonna take another

4231
02:51:16,950 --> 02:51:15,279
quick break uh we are almost out of here

4232
02:51:18,469 --> 02:51:16,960
i'm gonna take one quick break one last

4233
02:51:20,230 --> 02:51:18,479
segment when we come back

4234
02:51:21,269 --> 02:51:20,240
this is faded black i'm your host jimmy

4235
02:51:22,950 --> 02:51:21,279
church

4236
02:51:25,910 --> 02:51:22,960
sorry for the rambling didn't take any

4237
02:51:27,429 --> 02:51:25,920
calls why because i talk a lot

4238
02:51:47,030 --> 02:51:27,439
fade to black we'll be back right after

4239
02:51:56,230 --> 02:51:51,750
this is kjcr jimmychurchradio.com

4240
02:51:59,670 --> 02:51:58,309
hey this is from the vultures of queens

4241
02:52:51,910 --> 02:51:59,680
of the stone age you listen to

4242
02:52:56,309 --> 02:52:53,830
oh yeah

4243
02:52:57,830 --> 02:52:56,319
that's doug aldrich

4244
02:53:00,070 --> 02:52:57,840
could listen to that all night i could

4245
02:53:03,269 --> 02:53:00,080
just let that roll till 10 o'clock and i

4246
02:53:05,830 --> 02:53:04,630
all right

4247
02:53:07,110 --> 02:53:05,840
so

4248
02:53:10,309 --> 02:53:07,120
this is fade to black i'm your host

4249
02:53:12,389 --> 02:53:10,319
jimmy church kjcr jimmychurchradio.com

4250
02:53:13,670 --> 02:53:12,399
fade to black on the dark matter radio

4251
02:53:16,469 --> 02:53:13,680
network

4252
02:53:18,070 --> 02:53:16,479
follow us on twitter at jchurchradio

4253
02:53:21,110 --> 02:53:18,080
everything's over on youtube that is

4254
02:53:21,910 --> 02:53:21,120
kjcr fade to black

4255
02:53:29,750 --> 02:53:21,920
the

4256
02:53:31,429 --> 02:53:29,760
jimmychurchradio.com yeah

4257
02:53:33,830 --> 02:53:31,439
jimmychurchradio.com

4258
02:53:35,670 --> 02:53:33,840
is the facebook fan page you can go and

4259
02:53:38,790 --> 02:53:35,680
like us there it all kind of gets

4260
02:53:41,110 --> 02:53:38,800
updated at the same time uh everything

4261
02:53:42,710 --> 02:53:41,120
kind of feeds into each other depends on

4262
02:53:44,389 --> 02:53:42,720
what what uh

4263
02:53:46,230 --> 02:53:44,399
what you're doing first and they kind of

4264
02:53:47,910 --> 02:53:46,240
feed each other but

4265
02:53:49,830 --> 02:53:47,920
uh if i was going to make my guess i

4266
02:53:52,469 --> 02:53:49,840
would say the facebook page gets added

4267
02:53:55,030 --> 02:53:52,479
first which feeds into twitter and then

4268
02:53:56,950 --> 02:53:55,040
if i do twitter first if anybody here at

4269
02:53:58,469 --> 02:53:56,960
the station does twitter first that goes

4270
02:54:00,790 --> 02:53:58,479
back to facebook they

4271
02:54:02,950 --> 02:54:00,800
read weird and not the same they all

4272
02:54:05,590 --> 02:54:02,960
duplicate and stuff so if you start

4273
02:54:07,910 --> 02:54:05,600
anywhere start at the facebook page and

4274
02:54:10,309 --> 02:54:07,920
uh and then head over to twitter follow

4275
02:54:13,590 --> 02:54:10,319
us there if you want to see any of the

4276
02:54:15,190 --> 02:54:13,600
shows they are all posted

4277
02:54:18,230 --> 02:54:15,200
most of them

4278
02:54:19,429 --> 02:54:18,240
are posted on youtube and we are also

4279
02:54:21,710 --> 02:54:19,439
updating

4280
02:54:23,269 --> 02:54:21,720
everything on the highlights page on

4281
02:54:25,830 --> 02:54:23,279
jimmychurchradio.com you can go there

4282
02:54:28,150 --> 02:54:25,840
too as well so whatever your fancy we're

4283
02:54:30,070 --> 02:54:28,160
trying to keep all of the bases covered

4284
02:54:32,790 --> 02:54:30,080
all right now i've only got a few

4285
02:54:35,349 --> 02:54:32,800
minutes left and i wanted to talk about

4286
02:54:39,670 --> 02:54:35,359
uh this iranian

4287
02:54:42,790 --> 02:54:41,190
with uh

4288
02:54:45,510 --> 02:54:42,800
uh

4289
02:54:50,469 --> 02:54:45,520
that the united states has been

4290
02:54:52,630 --> 02:54:50,479
run by a tall white alien race since uh

4291
02:54:54,630 --> 02:54:52,640
1945

4292
02:54:57,190 --> 02:54:54,640
and prior to that

4293
02:54:58,230 --> 02:54:57,200
this same alien race

4294
02:55:01,990 --> 02:54:58,240
was

4295
02:55:05,750 --> 02:55:02,000
helping nazi germany

4296
02:55:07,429 --> 02:55:05,760
now before you think that i am crazy

4297
02:55:08,630 --> 02:55:07,439
and if you're hearing this for the first

4298
02:55:10,950 --> 02:55:08,640
time

4299
02:55:13,990 --> 02:55:10,960
you can go to cnn you can go to

4300
02:55:14,950 --> 02:55:14,000
forbes.com you can go to the washington

4301
02:55:16,790 --> 02:55:14,960
post

4302
02:55:19,190 --> 02:55:16,800
and any other

4303
02:55:21,590 --> 02:55:19,200
news outlet where you get your news from

4304
02:55:23,110 --> 02:55:21,600
and there's there's the story right

4305
02:55:25,590 --> 02:55:23,120
there in front of you

4306
02:55:29,269 --> 02:55:25,600
um pretty much the same information now

4307
02:55:30,710 --> 02:55:29,279
today more information has come out

4308
02:55:33,110 --> 02:55:30,720
and it's this

4309
02:55:34,550 --> 02:55:33,120
and it's almost exactly what i was just

4310
02:55:38,710 --> 02:55:34,560
talking about

4311
02:55:41,110 --> 02:55:38,720
internet and and uh bitcoins well

4312
02:55:42,830 --> 02:55:41,120
they're all kind of interrelated

4313
02:55:46,790 --> 02:55:42,840
and there's a method to my

4314
02:55:48,710 --> 02:55:46,800
madness but now apparently

4315
02:55:51,750 --> 02:55:48,720
edward snowden

4316
02:55:54,950 --> 02:55:51,760
is the culprit here

4317
02:55:55,990 --> 02:55:54,960
there's a there's a website that uh

4318
02:55:58,790 --> 02:55:56,000
that

4319
02:56:01,190 --> 02:55:58,800
released this story originally

4320
02:56:03,670 --> 02:56:01,200
and it was fictitious it was

4321
02:56:05,030 --> 02:56:03,680
tongue-in-cheek and it was a website not

4322
02:56:07,830 --> 02:56:05,040
unlike and i'm not going to say their

4323
02:56:11,030 --> 02:56:07,840
name i'm not going to give them any any

4324
02:56:15,110 --> 02:56:12,710
because it was just it was just a joke

4325
02:56:16,309 --> 02:56:15,120
it was it was just uh something that was

4326
02:56:19,030 --> 02:56:16,319
written

4327
02:56:20,790 --> 02:56:19,040
but the story that came out on this

4328
02:56:23,670 --> 02:56:20,800
particular website and this is where it

4329
02:56:27,830 --> 02:56:23,680
gets nutty and gets crazy is edward

4330
02:56:30,469 --> 02:56:27,840
snowden took nsa documents to russia

4331
02:56:34,230 --> 02:56:30,479
and in those nsa documents there was

4332
02:56:37,190 --> 02:56:34,240
proof that this alien race actually

4333
02:56:40,790 --> 02:56:37,200
existed and had been running the united

4334
02:56:42,710 --> 02:56:40,800
states since 1945 and this disclosure in

4335
02:56:44,389 --> 02:56:42,720
these nsa documents

4336
02:56:45,269 --> 02:56:44,399
were that uh

4337
02:56:48,630 --> 02:56:45,279
um

4338
02:56:50,469 --> 02:56:48,640
uh that this alien race was using the

4339
02:56:53,190 --> 02:56:50,479
internet to control the world and

4340
02:56:55,429 --> 02:56:53,200
control our information and the nsa was

4341
02:56:57,030 --> 02:56:55,439
being run by aliens and

4342
02:56:58,710 --> 02:56:57,040
and that's it and that's what the

4343
02:57:00,950 --> 02:56:58,720
internet is doing and it's controlling

4344
02:57:03,110 --> 02:57:00,960
information controlling the news

4345
02:57:06,309 --> 02:57:03,120
invading your lives spying on everybody

4346
02:57:07,670 --> 02:57:06,319
and it was aliens that are doing it

4347
02:57:11,349 --> 02:57:07,680
that's right

4348
02:57:14,389 --> 02:57:11,359
now this chock full of nuts website

4349
02:57:16,790 --> 02:57:14,399
here in the united states uh

4350
02:57:19,670 --> 02:57:16,800
uh published this story

4351
02:57:20,469 --> 02:57:19,680
now the fascinating thing uh

4352
02:57:22,870 --> 02:57:20,479
is

4353
02:57:25,190 --> 02:57:22,880
that the iranian

4354
02:57:28,389 --> 02:57:25,200
uh news agency which is called fars by

4355
02:57:29,510 --> 02:57:28,399
the way it's fars news f-a-r-s

4356
02:57:33,110 --> 02:57:29,520
um

4357
02:57:34,630 --> 02:57:33,120
took it at face value

4358
02:57:35,990 --> 02:57:34,640
and so

4359
02:57:37,830 --> 02:57:36,000
they now

4360
02:57:39,349 --> 02:57:37,840
where i'm confused and this is what i

4361
02:57:40,710 --> 02:57:39,359
don't understand and this is the beauty

4362
02:57:42,309 --> 02:57:40,720
of the united states and this is the

4363
02:57:44,790 --> 02:57:42,319
beauty of freedom of speech and this is

4364
02:57:47,590 --> 02:57:44,800
the beauty of you being able to

4365
02:57:49,910 --> 02:57:47,600
uh separate fact from fiction what is

4366
02:57:51,830 --> 02:57:49,920
you know the news on on saturday night

4367
02:57:54,150 --> 02:57:51,840
live every saturday and they break into

4368
02:57:56,309 --> 02:57:54,160
the you know it's not real but

4369
02:57:59,110 --> 02:57:56,319
apparently somebody wants to take a

4370
02:58:01,590 --> 02:57:59,120
chock full of nuts website serious in

4371
02:58:05,190 --> 02:58:01,600
the middle east and and

4372
02:58:07,590 --> 02:58:05,200
and print this as being fact

4373
02:58:10,469 --> 02:58:07,600
now i need you to stop and think about

4374
02:58:12,070 --> 02:58:10,479
uh the implications of this

4375
02:58:24,389 --> 02:58:12,080
the

4376
02:58:27,269 --> 02:58:24,399
publishing uh this report this new story

4377
02:58:30,710 --> 02:58:27,279
is that it all must be true because

4378
02:58:32,230 --> 02:58:30,720
edward snowden is involved the russian

4379
02:58:34,550 --> 02:58:32,240
uh

4380
02:58:37,030 --> 02:58:34,560
secret service is involved

4381
02:58:40,950 --> 02:58:37,040
they they confirmed all of these nsa

4382
02:58:43,510 --> 02:58:40,960
documents and and and it it's it's it's

4383
02:58:45,349 --> 02:58:43,520
a fact and if the russians say it's true

4384
02:58:46,870 --> 02:58:45,359
then it's true but they're not basing it

4385
02:58:48,630 --> 02:58:46,880
on anything that

4386
02:58:51,830 --> 02:58:48,640
that snowden had or anything that the

4387
02:58:54,070 --> 02:58:51,840
russians did it was all from this chock

4388
02:58:57,830 --> 02:58:54,080
full of nuts website in the united

4389
02:58:59,510 --> 02:58:57,840
states that wrote this fictitiously

4390
02:59:00,790 --> 02:58:59,520
now

4391
02:59:05,110 --> 02:59:00,800
what if

4392
02:59:08,070 --> 02:59:07,110
you got to love this great country this

4393
02:59:10,309 --> 02:59:08,080
is

4394
02:59:12,950 --> 02:59:10,319
fade to black i am your host jimmy

4395
02:59:16,070 --> 02:59:12,960
church we are on the dark matter radio

4396
02:59:17,910 --> 02:59:16,080
network i want to thank jerome clark for

4397
02:59:19,429 --> 02:59:17,920
coming in tonight that was one of the

4398
02:59:21,590 --> 02:59:19,439
coolest

4399
02:59:23,830 --> 02:59:21,600
conversations one can ever have and

4400
02:59:25,429 --> 02:59:23,840
that's what i'm saying

4401
02:59:27,190 --> 02:59:25,439
that's what this web

4402
02:59:29,110 --> 02:59:27,200
this this this

4403
02:59:31,269 --> 02:59:29,120
this radio program the dark matter

4404
02:59:33,269 --> 02:59:31,279
that's what we are we are on equal

4405
02:59:35,830 --> 02:59:33,279
footing with everybody else out there

4406
02:59:38,790 --> 02:59:35,840
and we are delivering it to you

4407
02:59:40,389 --> 02:59:38,800
special thanks to keith rowland

4408
02:59:42,870 --> 02:59:40,399
dark matter radio network show is

4409
02:59:45,110 --> 02:59:42,880
produced by rita kamirian

4410
02:59:51,190 --> 02:59:45,120
produced by hilton j palm

4411
02:59:51,200 --> 02:59:56,070
announcers are mark kovar

4412
03:00:01,190 --> 02:59:58,550
i am your host jimmy church

4413
03:00:03,190 --> 03:00:01,200
this is doug aldridge guitars for white

4414
03:00:05,110 --> 03:00:03,200
snakes going to take us out of here

4415
03:00:09,190 --> 03:00:05,120
and uh tomorrow night don't forget

4416
03:00:10,950 --> 03:00:09,200
steven bassett prg paradigm research

4417
03:00:13,830 --> 03:00:10,960
we'll be in here to talk about uh

4418
03:00:14,870 --> 03:00:13,840
citizen disclosure and his efforts right

4419
03:00:16,790 --> 03:00:14,880
now

4420
03:00:18,790 --> 03:00:16,800
with uh with congress and the government